

-----------------------------------

RoboHell

Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:22 pm


Could Lewis have saved Murphy's life??

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You all know the sceen, Lewis has the drop on Leon and is about to arrest
him, but first he has to zip up and Lewis just had to look, then she get's
knocked the fuck out.
Meanwhile, Murphy's calling for her help but she's no where to be found.
and next thing you know Murphy's been blown to bit's.

So my question is, if Lewis avoided looking at Leon's pecker and just cuffed
him like she should of, could she of saved Murphy form a violent death?
Would she find the same the same death waiting for her??
Did she ever feel responsible for what happend to Murphy??


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Law Giver

Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:37 pm



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Lewis in the beginning of the movie was a like bumble gum chewing slut, that likes also to kick ass. Her arrogance led to both of them jeopardizing their lives so recklessly just for the chance to take down that gang the way they did. But it should be remembered that Alex Murphy was  also a hotshot dickhead who thought he was a supercop(TJ Lazer) before actually becoming one. Both of them screwed up, but more so Lewis, because she looked down at (Edit) Joe's pecker like she was gonna blow him off or something..really dumb shit she was and useless by the time she came around and got to Murphy.

Both Murphy and Lewis   redeem themselves at the end, by working as real partners and leave the arrogance behind them...they matured.


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RoboPimp

Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:53 pm



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She damn well better cry herself to sleep every night about this shit. I never really noticed the complete severity of the situation until you put it in perspective. If only Robo knew that he could have been human if Lewis wasn't busy trying to get a glance at a man's package, well I'd hate to see the trouble that'd go down. Maybe he'd arrest her. It would serve her right. She had the option to save his life and wanted dick instead. What a shame.


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Law Giver

Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:03 pm



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He just had the ill-luck of having a horny female for a partner,lol. 

More seriously though, he was as arrogant and dumb as she was for going in without back up, remember when he tells her, "Well, you call it?" Clarence gloated over Murphy's delusions of grandeur due to his hotshot personality.So Murphy had only himself to blame for the situation. Lewis was also partially responsible  for help bringing back Murphy's memories and identity and also saves him from the SWAT team and at River Rouge.


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judza

Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:12 pm



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Don't mean to nitpick, but it was Joe who Lewis oogled.

As Law Giver said, they both were very reckless with the whole situation. The highway chase should've given our two heroes a clue about the hardware and the tactics these "Bank robbers" use (IE firing shotguns, and tossing one of their own to get rid of cops.)

So when they arrived at the steel mill, Murph should not have given it to Lewis to call the shots ("Well you call it?"). He should've put his foot down and said:
Murph: "After that highway shootout, I'm not going in there without the backup"

And Lewis would most likely agree. They'd wait, even if it took a long time, they would wait out of sight, keeping their eye on the van. 

If they didn't wait, and she called him a chicken or something, it would prove the point that she is just a "Bubble gum chewing slut".

But instead, they go in, knowing full well they were fired upon w/o hesitation at the highway, and not to mention...THEY SPLIT UP. That is not smart cop tactics. You can do a helluva lot more if there is someone covering your ass, rather than alone in an unfamiliar, claustrophobic, hideout.

But anyway, they did what they did and we get to Lewis holding Joe up whilst taking a whizz. She should've stopped chewing that damn gum (the popping made Joe stop and reel around) and arrested him. I don't know whether she would've escorted him out to the cruiser, or she would've handcuffed him to a railing or something, but Joe would've been out of the picture.

Meanwhile, Murph's getting his "hotshot" ass near Dougy and Emil watching TV. Dougy is taken down, and the shot alerts the gang to the area that a cop is in. But here's where it could've turned (not necessarily better than it did, but it could've changed), when Murph starts yelling to Lewis to get her ass to his position:

"Lewis I got a situation here girl".

Lewis wouldn't be grunting and groaning from being knocked out, she would respond in kind. Hopefully (because at this stage she'd still be on the high ground) she'd be able to get around the back way to Murph's position and provide backup (before or after Leon and Steve arrive can only speculated). Leon and Steve would arrive, I suppose Lewis would probably shoot one, followed by a short shootout of some kind between Emil, Steve/Leon, and Clarence (remember, he's pacing himself to the position). Murph would certainly have been saved from what he went through in the movies, but whether or not both he and Lewis, or one of them survived can only be speculated. 

As for the other questions:

As for suffering a similar death, I think so. She probably would've suffered more taunting, and just been raped/shot up etc.

As for feeling responsible, I'm sure she felt very responsible. It was Lewis who said "Let's do it" and they proceeded without backup. It was Lewis who wasn't there when Murphy needed her (they're partners, they are meant to be there for each other in these kinds of situations), it was Lewis who could've taken Joe (shoot him, or cuff him) and then gotten to Murph's position. She certainly could've done more for Murph than what she did in the movie. But then again, her POV gives the whole death scene that "helpless" feeling that helps us sympathize for their plight.


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Nika Silwerra

Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:39 pm



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good question ..

but how me know the Clerences band was nicelly "hard" and they did not have any mercy with anyone .. if her caught whole the band I bet she would finished up worse than Murphy . she is woman and also have not too big strenght as men ..not want think about what they would do with her before then would kill her .. 

Did she ever feel responsible for what happend to Murphy??

surelly ! also in the novel from Naha you can read something about her feelings .. 

So my question is, if Lewis avoided looking at Leon's pecker and just cuffed
him like she should of, could she of saved Murphy form a violent death? 

Well again to the story ..if she did not look at the zip .. maybe she would arrested the Joe.. but what would do with him .?. probably she would handcuffed him and took him out ..maybe to the car .. or chained him to a pipe inside the factory ..probably then she whould hurry  find Murphy .. but probably she would come late ..and I doubt if she had chance against Clerence and the band .. 

 she did good when just watched the masaker ( did she can to do something more ?) sad .. but she rescued herself life that she stand quietly 

but how we could to see in the R3 he gave back her this ..cause he stood on the stairs behing the Lewis and really did nothing uh


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RoboHell

Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:58 pm



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Nika.
If i remember right, and plus it's been awhile since ive last seen Robocop3,
but wasn't shooting rehab officers a product violation, so instead he just blew up shit around them??
If im right, then Murph had no choice but to watch her die.


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RoboHell

Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:03 am



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Don't mean to nitpick, but it was Joe who Lewis oogled.

.

Shit, god damit!!! i will go and hang myself in the closet  now. :ohdear: 
I can't belive i got the names wrong!!!


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Xeno

Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:15 pm



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Nika.
If i remember right, and plus it's been awhile since ive last seen Robocop3,
but wasn't shooting rehab officers a product violation, so instead he just blew up shit around them??
If im right, then Murph had no choice but to watch her die.
Actually it is pretty farfetch situation. In the beginning of Robo 3, Murph caught a bullet with his hand with no problem. And by a long shot he could of seen what MacDagget is up to and stand in the way of  bullets.


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Law Giver

Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:04 pm



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Didnt she step in front of Robo? Maybe her hair got in Murphy's way?!


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Mephisto

Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:11 pm



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I got the answer to all your questions folks.


It was in the script.

There, I said it. plain and simple.

Gotta tell yourself that when you see dumb shit in movies that is completely illogical and really shouldn't happen.


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Stan The Man

Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:00 am



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*Vote*   Not considered a nitpick, it's needed for the plot.

Oh wait, this isn't Nitpickers.com... :b


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Cincinnatus

Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:06 am



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judza nailed it on the head with this one. They violated every Procedure in the book in their operation. They called for backup after they follow them to their hideout? :? 

Backup should have been called once they caught up with their van when the shooting started they did what they had to do though there was some hotdog bullshit by Murphy acting like John Wayne. Once they arrived at the Warehouse they should have sat tight for backup. Even then if they decided to go inside which was pure stupid shit on a stick they should have never split up they had no clue how many perps they had to deal with for all they know there could have been a whole platoon full of Bruce Lee's in the back.

Anyways with that off my chest Murphy and Lewis got what they sowed by acting like a bunch of hotheads as cops are always warned about Tombstone Style Courage is what gets a ton of good LEOs killed.


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Law Giver

Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:43 am



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I think I said the same thing.. :rage:  :lol:

* Also, I thought I saw a shotgun in the car, but they never took it.


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Kevlar Antelope

Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:59 am



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If Lewis didn't look at Joe's wanker, Murphy would still have been in one piece with his family.  But then again they didn't have to rush in there alone with no back up.


But then again shouldn't we thank her?  Without her Robo wouldn't have been born.


 :mrgreen:


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RoboFan_93

Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:49 pm



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I doubt that she could have saved him. More liklely get herself killed even earlier.
I remeber that once I was watching R3 on TV with my aunt and when Lewis got shot she said:
"Oh, so now they're gonna make her Robocop 3!"
There was also a fan poster that showed a shadow of a Lewis-like Crime Prevention Unit and it said "RobocopS 4"


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Mephisto

Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:24 pm



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Didnt she step in front of Robo? Maybe her hair got in Murphy's way?!
I figure she let one go when she stepped in front of him and all he could think about was "God, what has Lewis been eating?...."

Totally took him off his game.


You know..all this talk about Joe's Wang....i think that will be my new excuse for everything now.

I'm late for work...

My Boss: "Why were you late?"

Me: "Well, If it wasn't for Joe's Wang, I'd been here sooner."

My Boss: ":shock: ?????"


Joe's Goddamn Wang. How I despise thee. :evil:


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Stan The Man

Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:44 am



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* Also, I thought I saw a shotgun in the car, but they never took it.

Actually it was a CAR-15 Assualt Carbine on their on-board holder. But, hey, it's not like taking that would have helped much more anyway..


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Law Giver

Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:08 am



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* Also, I thought I saw a shotgun in the car, but they never took it.

Actually it was a CAR-15 Assualt Carbine on their on-board holder. But, hey, it's not like taking that would have helped much more anyway..

Yep thats what it was, knew there was something there. I think Mepthisto's comments must come into play, BIG TIME. Like in Alien, Kain has some kinda gun during the egg discovery scene, but Dallas claimed they had no guns or atleast they never bothered to use them against the Xenomorph. Chalk it up to movie fuck ups and director botch-jobs.


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Cincinnatus

Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:15 am



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* Also, I thought I saw a shotgun in the car, but they never took it.

Actually it was a CAR-15 Assualt Carbine on their on-board holder. But, hey, it's not like taking that would have helped much more anyway..

Yep thats what it was, knew there was something there. I think Mepthisto's comments must come into play, BIG TIME. Like in Alien, Kain has some kinda gun during the egg discovery scene, but Dallas claimed they had no guns or atleast they never bothered to use them against the Xenomorph. Chalk it up to movie fuck ups and director botch-jobs.

It is a pulse rifle isn't it?


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Law Giver

Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:20 am



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In Alien? Looked like some kinda uzi or something done up to look like futuristic pistol or laser gun. Not sure if theres any pics of it online, best viewed during the SE DVD with widescreen.


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Stan The Man

Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:22 am



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Like in Alien, Kain has some kinda gun during the egg discovery scene, but Dallas claimed they had no guns or atleast they never bothered to use them against the Xenomorph. 

I think Kane using the gun when he encounters the egg isn't in the regular movie (deleted scene or something), but I thought I remembered in the regular movie that Kane said 'We better break out the weapons' right before they left the ship, or something to that effect.

Anyway, back to the topic, IMO, as it's already been said, ALL of the actions made by Lewis and Murphy after they pull up to the van we're against police procedure and training, against common sense, even.

In the case that Lewis did get Joe, she probably still would have been killed just like Murphy, or worse, and therefore, no, I don't think she could have saved Murphy from death. 

As far as I'm concerned, they we're dead the second they decided to go after those guys by themselves, long before Lewis glanced down towards the man's Johnson. Especially after what happened back during the chase, hell, it's damn surprising they didn't get killed back then, the way those guys were blowing that car apart.

EDIT - Picture of Kane with the gun, yes it's a deleted scene. - Linked image courtesy of 


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RoboHell

Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:10 pm



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Stan's got it right, after the van chase.... they should of known these
guy's were not fucking around, i mean they tossed there "safe" guy out 
of the feaking van in the middle of a gun fight, when he just suffered 
a knee wound, that's when muphy and lewis should of realized 
that human life means absolutely nothing to them.


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DJR2096

Sat Mar 08, 2008 5:45 pm



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To look is Human!!


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Philip17

Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:25 am



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she is woman and also have not too big strenght as men ..not want think about what they would do with her before then would kill her .. 


But she realy Kicked a mans ass in the police station!!!!  :mrgreen:  I still think, that in the beggining of the movie, they realy hink of them selfs... as "super cops"

If Lewis didn't look at Joe's wanker, Murphy would still have been in one piece with his family.  But then again they didn't have to rush in there alone with no back up.

OK I donīt agree!!!

You are looking at the wrong point!!! Look at him, we can see in his eyes that he is just waiting for an oportunity, but even if she didnīt look at his dick... she wouldnīt arrest him, cause he is the type of guy that doesnīt surrender!!!!


And the problem is not she looking for the dick,the real problem is she being to close to him!!!! If she was a little far way, she could look, and yet he would not be able to reach her gun!!!


Another problem was.... going in without backup!!!  And I donīt think they would rape her, cause they would think, "if they are here, that means  their backup must be on the way... and we donīt have time for that!!!"

They probably would just shoot her!!!
(and stop making dumb jokes about "her wanting to bl*w him", she is a fine cop, but got carried away...)


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Xeno

Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:35 am



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My thinking is we dont know any Murphy or Lewis background. By that scene where Lewis beats crap out of perp we can tell that she is a tought girl and know her place. I mean on the force in Old Detroit she problably saw more dangerous trheats. And Murph may have been tough cop who was too tough tor Metro South. 
And what backup people?? Cops dont have many people on the streets and in the beggining of the movie we see that there is not enough manpower for any kind of backup.


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Law Giver

Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:40 pm



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Well then, next time they should bring in the M4 when they decide to apprehend 5-6 heavily armed and dangerous vicious murderous  psychopaths.  :lol: 

A cops job is to arrest, not shoot to kill..which is something both Lewis and Murphy shouldve done, since they had no back-up and took it upon  themselves to recklessly endanger their very lives just to play who's the best cop.

Also I have to wonder where the heck were the State Police?  :)  The idea of Detroit as presented in the movie being on the verge of aPolice strike and privatization of the city( and I assume the state's) police force is just too far fetched.


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Philip17

Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:17 pm



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"If you canīt stand the heat, you stay out of the kitchen!!!"

They know the risks, they are just doing their jobs, and they did it, cause they know that their lives are at stake, they are cops!!! But they are not frightened, so they just do they job, the split up part is because they could cover more ground (of course, it would be stupid to do that in this situation, but they did it anyway).


They are just cops, nothing more!!


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Mephisto

Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:53 pm



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You would think that with all the cop killings going on...they might be a bit more cautious.

Look at the scene when Murphy first sees Boddicker walking towards him.

Murphy knows he screwed at that point.


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Kevlar Antelope

Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:04 pm



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Bottom line:  They shouldn't have went in without backup.

Obviously they could have staked out and waited the guys inside where watching TV and what not just hanging out.  They could have waited no rush, they could have got all of Clarence and his gang if they would have waited.


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Player1

Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:09 am



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i personally think that even Lewis would be killed along with Murphy... (there were just 2 cops and.. how many bad guys with shotguns? 6-7?)


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Robo79

Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:50 pm



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As you've all said, Murphy and Lewis rushed into everything without giving it any serious thought whatsoever.  

Still, I always got the impression that they went in without back-up, however reckless they were, because they were desperate to nail a man who had been responsible for the deaths of 31 police officers, despite him having a gang to support him, and maybe they were worried that if they waited for long in the police car, then there'd be a chance that Boddicker and his men would leave immediately.  So they basically wanted to catch them as soon as possible.

Also, without the ensuing tragic events, we wouldn't have had the movie, would we?  :wink:


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supes2705

Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:20 pm



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As you've all said, Murphy and Lewis rushed into everything without giving it any serious thought whatsoever.  

Still, I always got the impression that they went in without back-up, however reckless they were, because they were desperate to nail a man who had been responsible for the deaths of 31 police officers, despite him having a gang to support him, and maybe they were worried that if they waited for long in the police car, then there'd be a chance that Boddicker and his men would leave immediately.  So they basically wanted to catch them as soon as possible.

Also, without the ensuing tragic events, we wouldn't have had the movie, would we?  :wink:

Too true but still, Lewis had her mind on the blokes Schmeckel, and part of it could of been avoided, i wonder where lewis his till the cops arrived since Boddickers gang may of still been lurking around somewhere


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Stan The Man

Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:48 am



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 i wonder where lewis his till the cops arrived since Boddickers gang may of still been lurking around somewhere

[Yoda-mode]Not watched the movie, have you? :b[End Yoda-mode]


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Law Giver

Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:23 am



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If Lewis did anything more than what you see in the movie, we wouldnt even have the MOVIE! :ohdear:  :wink:


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RobbieValiant

Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:21 pm



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This argument reminds me a lot of a similar argument in another fandom I'm in, the Danny Phantom fandom. Someone argued that since Sam had the chance (which she actively denied- "I'm his friend, not his mom.") to stop Danny from cheating, and thus avert the chain of events leading to the timeline where everything's a dystopic apocalypse and Danny's turned evil, she's responsible for it. Both come down to this: She had no way of knowing this, so it makes no sense to blame her.


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RoboPimp

Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:40 pm



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She had no way of knowing this, so it makes no sense to blame her.

Yeah deciding to go in without backup against a gang of ruthless cop killers who know the layout of the place better and have much more fire-and man-power then you is completely acceptable. Sure, she might not have been able to know that was what was going to happen, but it's still not a smart move at all.


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Bambi

Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:44 am



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They had courage, but didn't think it through, they should have waited for backup.


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RoboTrap

Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:39 am



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Still, I always got the impression that they went in without back-up, however reckless they were, because they were desperate to nail a man who had been responsible for the deaths of 31 police officers, despite him having a gang to support him, and maybe they were worried that if they waited for long in the police car, then there'd be a chance that Boddicker and his men would leave immediately.  So they basically wanted to catch them as soon as possible.

Except they didn't know it was Boddicker. All they knew is that they were chasing down some bank robbers. That's why Murphy got the "oh fuck me" close-up when he saw Clarence waltzing up, he didn't realize who he was screwing with until that moment.


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Mindchamber

Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:25 am



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And the problem is not she looking for the dick,the real problem is she being to close to him!!!! If she was a little far way, she could look, and yet he would not be able to reach her gun!!!

(and stop making dumb jokes about "her wanting to bl*w him", she is a fine cop, but got carried away...)

lol, yeah she only looked down cause she noticed a bowtie on his thong.

of course she was checking out his package. The dude was black, and Im sure his shit was like a foot long,  he was probably swinging it around like a party favor.


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MurphysGal

Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:31 am



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I think even if she had not sneaked a pick, Joe would have found another way to get her out of the way. They both made the mistake of going in there without back-up and splitting up, but i don't think Lewis would have been able to stop Murph getting killed, she probally would have also been killed as well, it was sad that he had to die, but if he hadn't of died then it defeats the purpose of the movie.


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Skeith

Wed May 20, 2009 9:16 pm



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My oinion on this matter is that of course if you look closely - it's a flaw. Reckless, hotshot behavior that lead to the death of a cop (Alex). It's a movie plot so without that there would be no robocop as we know it :P

Ok. What would've happen if Lewis was not so reckless.
Remember that she was knocked out with just a simple one blow. 
Ok. She was not knocked out.
She shows herself at the room where Alex is. So many people, big space and no options for 2 separate cops. They could not even cover each other. 
They would be just shot together. Massacred. No really - they stood no chance whatsoever. 
Let's count the Clarence's gang members...
Too much for 2 cops to handle, is it not.

And to come to conclusion.
Of course the scripter could not know all the books of police work - never go without backup in this situation and so on. So he made it like this.

I would not talk about PD (you all know why) when it shows Alex as NOT a hotshot cop like he is in the real Robocop.

Conclusion - Reckless, hotshot and young plus unexperienced.


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KidGoesWild

Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:59 am



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If she wouldnt get knocked down by joe she wouldve died with Murphy. She had no affect at all on the gang's timing in appearance or their positioning. If she'd respond and join Muprhy, shed get ambushed by the others with shotguns just like Murphy did and get killed. She was lucky that Joe was lazy and didnt feel like going down there to check if shes really dead.

As for the question if she coudlve donemore - obviously not. If she'd give up her position shed be blasted like the others. One or few shots from Heckler & Koch P9S would only wound one or two tops, and that would alert the others and Clarence who would all take cover and turn her into spaghetti. That is of course, if shed be even able to shoot through all this stuff in front of her.


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nindo

Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:42 pm



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"Lewis could of saved Murphy's life??"

To answer this question (by forgetting of course completely the fact that it is a film and thus by it imagining in reality), and well I think that Lewis and murphy could, while waiting for the reinforcements, of drawing on the tires from the van to block boddicker and the others.


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KidGoesWild

Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:28 pm



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"Lewis could of saved Murphy's life??"

To answer this question (by forgetting of course completely the fact that it is a film and thus by it imagining in reality), and well I think that Lewis and murphy could, while waiting for the reinforcements, of drawing on the tires from the van to block boddicker and the others.

Im not sure if the Van was the only transport they had. I think Clarence's SUX was parked somewhere around. Theyve been in this hideout before apparently so I think more of their equipment and cars were somewhere there. Plus, it looked like they abandoned the van altogether. Then again, we see them using the van later on

Another thing is that the mill was huge. RoboCop could easily hide there somewhere and could just walk around freely when others were looking for him cause the mill was so big. It would be next to impossible to find Clarence's gang if they just spread around in the mill, which is as big as a village or a town. Few extra cops wouldnt be able to scope the entire place and find them. Lewis and Murphy had to act


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* * * * *

Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:09 am



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...


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Rick

Wed Nov 22, 2023 7:33 pm



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From what we saw of Clarence's gang, once they arrived at the mill, they pretty much chilled out and didn't notice that Murphy & Lewis had arrived shortly after them. So technically, Murphy & Lewis could have waited 10 minutes and then went in with backup and caught the gang completely unaware. But then we wouldn't have had a movie or RoboCop so we have to be glad they did!


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Archive

Mon Nov 27, 2023 8:39 am



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I also wonder, why the rush?  The old steel mill seemed like it was the base or hideout of Clarences gang. They had a TV plugged in and everything. Why did Murphy and Lewis absolutely have to rush in then and there instead of coordinating a joined police attack later now that they know where their hideout is?

Of course its an 80s action movie so people don't always do the most logical thing. That whole freeway gun fight is completely over the top also. Following/tailing them to their hideout would have been a good idea also.

