----------------------------------- NOF Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:39 am Robocop dismantled ----------------------------------- I find this scene to be more painful to watch than Murphy getting shot up by Clarence Boddiker and co. You end up wanting to knock the fuck out of Hob and the rest. And what annoys me about it is that Robo gets out of a car that's been blown up with a rocket no problem, but gets his hand shot off easily half an hour later. And you'd think that, with the new armour, he'd at least have a bit more strength to resist. I don't know, is that just me? ----------------------------------- Josh Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:56 am ----------------------------------- You know, I've never though of that. True Robo does seem unscathed in the beginning but like you said does get dismantled. Then again, I don't know if the explosion in the beginning would blow him apart. Sure it flipped the car but it didn't blow it apart. Compare that to the explosion of his cruiser when Cain's gang capture him to see what I mean. Maybe it was just an oversight. But a good point nonetheless. ----------------------------------- Fummelcop Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:41 pm ----------------------------------- I think this scene is very odd. It really impressed me when i was a kid, but now i think, why didn`t they remove his head? The gangsta-kid even mentions that he wants to see robo`s brain. Yet they take off his legs and helmet and when they get to see his only vaulnurable spot, they just stop and take him to a police station. Most criminals are not the smartest, but this stupid? ----------------------------------- meathead316 Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:08 pm ----------------------------------- his hand was shot at by a fully automatic high calibre weapon... I totally agree with fummelcop though, how dumb were they to just dismember him, they shoukd have done a proper job and taken his head off too, but nooooooooooooo stupid criminals left him alive and what happens, he gets better and gets his revenge! in a way its very similar to the 1st film in that he is killed once, brought back to life and kills those responsible. come to think of it, he almost dies in robo3 too..... ----------------------------------- NOF Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:04 pm ----------------------------------- Well, when he's back in the lab it's noted that the back of the head is badly damaged so maybe they tried. Also, it shouldn't matter what type of weapon it is, his hand shouldn't get blown off that easily. Having said that, I seem to recall that in Miller's original script, they ripped his face off to reveal a Terminator like exo skeleton. If I was to redo R2, I'd keep the scene in but replace Robo with one of the prototype R2's. ----------------------------------- ChAnOoD Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:35 pm ----------------------------------- It´s a nasty scene. I agree with you, about how easy seems to "cut" Robo´s hand with a gun and make him just cables and pieces. Also, how weak he looks in that scene. Ok, he had some electric gun right in his chest, but in the first one he was shot by almost the whole Detroit PD and he still wanted to live. Here they catch him with a magnet and he does NOTHING to scape or survive to that. I think it doesn´t adds anything new to the RoboCop character, Miller just followed the script of the first movie: "Ok, they kill him around 30 minutes in the movie. I´ll do that. Then they shot him in the hand. Cool! The rest is him being just a mess. Ok, I´ll change bullets for some tools and done". ----------------------------------- Josh Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:52 pm ----------------------------------- I don't like the magnet they use to move him and the chains they use to hold him. Are you telling me that Robo can't break chains even though 10-15 minutes before he did just that? ----------------------------------- Archive Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:57 pm ----------------------------------- I can see the idea with dumping Robo alive at the police station as a message from Cain. As in "look what we did to your machine." Of course they should have finished the job but as all movie villains they are overconfident in their victory. I agree on the chains thing. It is like Robo was paralysed lying there. He didn't seem to do much effort in getting free. ----------------------------------- meathead316 Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:55 am ----------------------------------- what i dont like is that as mentioned robo does nothing to break free. the bit on the magnet is blatently a dummy so no movement at all. but surely if he struggled then there is no way they could hav chained him down. but once they did, i dont think robo could have broken free, they where pretty hench chains. ----------------------------------- Josh Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:21 am ----------------------------------- but once they did, i dont think robo could have broken free, they where pretty hench chains. Look at the chain Robo rips off of the plant where they capture him. That was a hefty chain. Also, he busts down a reinforced door in the first film (I always think of the multiple attempts as a form of intimidation) and you see him (not much mind you) begin to push the girders off of himself that Nash drops on him. There Series did a good job of showing Robo's strength (moving cars, surviving a car compactor). It's just a shame It's not canon so I don't really count it but it could potentially give you an idea of his strength. ----------------------------------- RoboDemise Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:40 pm ----------------------------------- I'm going to try to get ignorantly scientific for a second. I think his hand got shot off by a tripod mounted huge caliber machine gun. Here's where I think the physics come into play. What would be stronger, Robo's armor at the wrist (a crucial pivot point and probably not so well protected), or the motor or servo asembly or whatever it is that makes his shoulder move. I say this because I wonder how strong whatever holding his arm in place would be. He's decently heavy and I am sure he is well planted and balanced on the ground so that high velocity high caliber projectile is essentially hitting a wall that does not give when it is hit. Or his shoulder or footing, anything really, would give or be moved as the bullet hit, thus wasting alot of the energy from the bullet. Or if he remained perfectly stiff he would take the full force of the bullet as if it was hitting a brick wall. I can see this easily taking his hand off at the wrist. Maybe not on a more protected part but definitely the wrist. As far as them not taking his head... Well we wouldn't have any more movie if they did that would we? Rocket to the car at the beginning was never a direct impact To Robo and the car itself took away alot of the energy instead of ol' Murph. The G's he took in that car flipping were no problem for him. Also I forgot to say when you guys are talking about him not moving when he is being magnetized and such, keep in mind that he just took a 2 ton crane hook to the face. Although they portray it poorly in the movie he is obviously dazed. They should have shown a hud shot of his viewer being scrambled or something like when hob shot him. He still has a brain encapsulated in some type of housing. WHen it gets knocked off the walls of whatever it is held in there is going to be brain trama. He definitely would have been unconscious or dead had it not been that he was a Fucking RoboCop! Cut the guy some slack. :lol: ----------------------------------- Deus Ex Robo Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:07 pm ----------------------------------- Also when chained flat on a surface, leverage comes into play. You'd think he'd still be able to muscle his way out of it, but my suspension of disbelief covers the problem with that excuse. ----------------------------------- meathead316 Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:30 am ----------------------------------- i agree with demise about the pivot pints being weak areas and a high calibre weapon would have no trouble taking his hand off. one other thing about this scene that bugs me though. we say that all these criminal are really dumb for not finishing robo off when they had the chance, but whos the dumb one that walked into the dumb criminals crappy trap?! they could have made it a bit more elborate and not make robo look as much he blatently could have avoided the situation if he didnt walk in there thinking he well 'ard. ----------------------------------- DoktorNo Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:45 pm ----------------------------------- I think, that rushed adaptation of original Frank Miller's script is here to blame... ----------------------------------- KidGoesWild Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:42 pm ----------------------------------- RoboDemise summed up the hand severing well. People compare being engulfed in fire inside a car or flipped in a car to a tripod MACHINE GUN shooting the weak spot in Robo's arm - the connection of wrist and hand As for the scene itself, I love it. Its a great poetic rhyme to the first movie where Robo goes through the same thing - being tortured, dismembered and played with, but this time in an even more sadistic manner (splashing him with his own blood asking how it tastes) As for that weird criticism that they didnt smash his head - there wouldnt be a movie after that. For me its as silly as saying how come no one shoots Robocop in the mouth _____________________________ http://robocopmovies.blogspot.com/ ----------------------------------- RoboDemise Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:45 pm ----------------------------------- RoboDemise summed up the hand severing well. Thanks! I thought so too. :lol: ----------------------------------- KidGoesWild Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:49 pm ----------------------------------- Also, it shouldn't matter what type of weapon it is, his hand shouldn't get blown off that easily. That would make the character absolutely silly and unrealistic. Its not Superman, he gets hurt by large caliber weapons. ED's automatic weapons ripped him to shreds. Tripod machine gun is such powerful weapon that can easily blow the whole top of the car in a second and rip it to shreds to the point it becomes an unrecognizable object. Theres nothing wrong with Robo's hand beiong severed on the joint while shot with such massive gun It´s a nasty scene. I agree with you, about how easy seems to "cut" Robo´s hand with a gun and make him just cables and pieces. Also, how weak he looks in that scene. Ok, he had some electric gun right in his chest, but in the first one he was shot by almost the whole Detroit PD and he still wanted to live. Here they catch him with a magnet and he does NOTHING to scape or survive to that. ??? HUGE difference here. He was being shot with bullets in the first, in here he was electrocuted and had power drained from him. Apples and oranges _____________________________ http://robocopmovies.blogspot.com/ ----------------------------------- RoboDemise Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:54 pm ----------------------------------- And everybody forgets the massive hook we was knocked down with immediately before he was magnetized. I posted it already but he would more than likely be unconscious or completely... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auDv6cf2PBM ----------------------------------- meathead316 Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:09 pm ----------------------------------- Agreed most people forget he is part man and has a brain, so being smacked in the head with a massive metal hook could easily give him a concussion and/or knock him out briefly. every hero needs to be seen as being mortal, having some sort of weakness. If robocop was truely invulnerable to all types of bullets and explosives then there would be no suspense, every time he came up against a bad guy you would already know the outcome will be "robo cant be hurt, he will win" he needs this vulnerability, it not only makes for a better movie, but its a contant reminder that under all that metal, he is still merly a man. ----------------------------------- Maxlee Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:10 pm ----------------------------------- Ah yes. This storyline from RoboCop 2 that I almost think about everyday. I like how Hob pushes down Robo's arm so he can tie it down with chains. It's the same when Robo bobbles about in Robo1 when the rapist victim tries to hug him or something. Is it the actors forgetting Robo is a heavy machine ? :lol: Why is Angie's electro gun unexplained ? The way it functions make it nothing else other than a "anti-RoboCop gun". What else ya gonna do with it ? Shoot it at a car and electrocute the car ? :roll: I know there's a deleted scene where Cain goes cyborg shopping at Faxx's place (that sounds odd actually) so did Faxx provide them with the trademarked anti-RoboCop gun to take out Robo ? Did at that point in time Faxx was already anti-RoboCop ? Who threw the crane thing against Robo's head ? How did that person know how to aim it directly at Robo's head ? A little misstep and he would have beheaded a gang member with that thing :lol: Why are the scenes littered with continuity errors ? - Robo's hand shot of, later seen attached to the forearm - anti-Robo taser gun claws its way into Robo's chest, damage later dissapears - drilled off leg falls to the ground despite being chained down - both legs attached after one is drilled off - Hob says "you cracked it" when later on we see nothing is cracked - Hob saying he wants to see brains (is he Hannibal Lecter?) but later on apparently he didn't get his wish - Oil sprayed on Robo's face later dissapears - drill marks on Robo's chest suggest they drilled him again after he was already taken apart, so what was the point ? - Robo's helmet and gun magically disappear, two iconic items that Robo should have found in Cain's Elvis area as priced items. (perhaps so Robo can retrieve this gun and then wield TWO auto9's in the following shootout) - What's the point of Robo's arm monitor thingy ? Are we to believe this sofisticated looking equipment already existed back in Robo1 ? They always hook up Robo to a bunch of equipment and a ton of monitors display all kinds of Robo info, what's the point of having a small monitor in his arm ? During the dismemberment, Cain is seen taking Nuke. Are we to believe he slips into a trip and doesn't really care anymore what happens to Robo ? Speaking of, Cain seems quite distanced from this whole ordeal, it's Hob who steps on Robo's chest as the victor and declares all sorts of wishes he wants fulfilled. Cain doesn't care much does he ? I always imagine it that Robo slips into Robo-coma after he screams and the scene changes to the police station. That way, we aren't left wondering what else happens to Robo, and you can sorta imagine the badguys being dissapointed that they "broke" RoboCop and he can't respond anymore to what else they wanted to do with him. Thus why bother scooping his eyes out or whacking his face or whatever, he won't feel it anymore. Still doesnt really explain why they atleast didn't behead him. In Robo1 we see the technicians switch Robo on and off at whim. Why is all they do is hang dismembered Robo on two wires and stare at him all day ? I've read the Frank Miller comic. In it, Robo fights off those cop goons from the 3rd film, what were they called, and apparently debris falls on Robo. Next thing we know is Robo hanging @ OCP being all wires and junk. Afterwards he gets repaired and gets the crazy directives. I think the director/writers for Robo2 wanted to keep the crazy directives in, but had to find another way for Robo to end up @ OCP damaged. So they came up with the scenario that we got. Although it does help in giving Cain a score against our hero, thus making the end battle when our hero prevails more satisfying, I do think it does a disservice against Robo. What writer thinks it is a good idea to have our hero, a cyborg, getting chained to a table and torn into pieces ? Isn't that a bit off the wall here ? What happened to anti-armor weapons, cornering Robo with 2 ED-209's, landmines, and what else have you. More probably later. ----------------------------------- KidGoesWild Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:39 pm ----------------------------------- Ah yes. This storyline from RoboCop 2 that I almost think about everyday. I like how Hob pushes down Robo's arm so he can tie it down with chains. It's the same when Robo bobbles about in Robo1 when the rapist victim tries to hug him or something. Is it the actors forgetting Robo is a heavy machine ? :lol: This is serious nitpicking about technical limitations. Obviously Weller isnt a robot so he will react to impacts. Why is Angie's electro gun unexplained ? The way it functions make it nothing else other than a "anti-RoboCop gun". What else ya gonna do with it ? Shoot it at a car and electrocute the car ? :roll: I know there's a deleted scene where Cain goes cyborg shopping at Faxx's place (that sounds odd actually) so did Faxx provide them with the trademarked anti-RoboCop gun to take out Robo ? Did at that point in time Faxx was already anti-RoboCop ? I would hate it if it would get explained. It wouldve been as stuppid as the movies are nowadays when everything has to be laid out like in school and explained like to dummies. The explanation for the weapon and its technical details is not essential to the plot, especially in a science fiction movie involving cybernetics. Same way we dont need explanation how Robo has Murphy's voice or how does he poop or why doesnt he has his mouth covered Going back to the gun, as you hinted yourself its something from OCP. Seeing how many cyborgs they create and how they go crazy, its no wonder for me at all they would create an anti cyborg/robot tazer gun Who threw the crane thing against Robo's head ? I dont see any reason to be puzzled here. Cain had men scattered throughout the place hidden everywhere. And obviously someone was waiting to throw it at the right moment, like Hob waiting with machine gun. How did that person know how to aim it directly at Robo's head ? Its a huge hook and the space was narrow, Only an idiot would miss a robocop or a person there, especially when the hook was going down to such low level A little misstep and he would have beheaded a gang member with that thing :lol: He would have to duck. And not only Robos not fast but it was going down so fast no one would be able to duck it when it came so suddenly. And what misstep? Cain was strategically positioned. There was only one way to Cain, you cant go wrong here Why are the scenes littered with continuity errors ? - Robo's hand shot of, later seen attached to the forearm - anti-Robo taser gun claws its way into Robo's chest, damage later dissapears - drilled off leg falls to the ground despite being chained down - both legs attached after one is drilled off - Hob says "you cracked it" when later on we see nothing is cracked - Hob saying he wants to see brains (is he Hannibal Lecter?) but later on apparently he didn't get his wish - Oil sprayed on Robo's face later dissapears Again, serious nitpicking about technical/editing errors. They happen in every movie and theyre not essential to the plot. They dont have budget to reshoot some scenes and didnt have CGI to fix (trivial) technical errors, so they used what they wanted for the scene the way it was designed from an editorial standpoint - drill marks on Robo's chest suggest they drilled him again after he was already taken apart, so what was the point ? Simple. Torture. Dismembering body, dancing on the body of a cop. Having fun with it, in an even more psycho way than Bodicker's gang did with Muprhy - What's the point of Robo's arm monitor thingy ? Are we to believe this sofisticated looking equipment already existed back in Robo1 ? They always hook up Robo to a bunch of equipment and a ton of monitors display all kinds of Robo info, what's the point of having a small monitor in his arm ? By those questions I see youre really trying to dislike the movie and force as many faults as possible. This is a very weird question, tow which the answer is - it looked cool and underlined the idea that Robo doesnt have muscles but all sorts of cybernetic stuff in his body. Its simply a red alert monitor for technicians that shows system failure. Cmon. Its a nicely design device like the compartment for leg, both showing Robos body is full of stuff like that. It only showed that fake metal biceps has functionality in it During the dismemberment, Cain is seen taking Nuke. Are we to believe he slips into a trip and doesn't really care anymore what happens to Robo ? Speaking of, Cain seems quite distanced from this whole ordeal, it's Hob who steps on Robo's chest as the victor and declares all sorts of wishes he wants fulfilled. Cain doesn't care much does he ? cain never cared much anyway. He wanted to get rid of him. It was done the moment he was hooked to the magnet. The rest was just sadistic fun he left to other. It mirrors Bodicker letting others play with "another" cop in the first one . Still doesnt really explain why they atleast didn't behead him. Again, youd have no movie afterwards. As stupid as saying why no one shoots Robo in the mouth In Robo1 we see the technicians switch Robo on and off at whim. Why is all they do is hang dismembered Robo on two wires and stare at him all day ? Aplles and oranges. In this case theyre leftovers of a brain that can go off anytime. He has to be kept alive by electric shocks and is on the verge of dying. They cant disconnect him since his body is a junk and the brain needs support since the fused systems from the body are damaged What writer thinks it is a good idea to have our hero, a cyborg, getting chained to a table and torn into pieces ? A writer that wants to humanize the character and show a crucifixion of him for the second time, even as a powerful cyborg. A writer who wants to underline Murphys still hurting human, a writer who wants a character behind the helmet, not a walking robotic tank-man Isn't that a bit off the wall here ? What happened to anti-armor weapons, cornering Robo with 2 ED-209's, landmines, and what else have you. What do you mean what happened to it? Cobra canon is reused in the movie but almost useless against Cain _____________________________ http://robocopmovies.blogspot.com/ ----------------------------------- RoboPimp Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:45 pm ----------------------------------- KidGoesWild...that is beautiful. You truly deserve that "Robo 2 Loyal" medal beneath your name. Thank you for that post that really made me re-think this scene and see it in a deeper context. ----------------------------------- chaos one Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:32 pm ----------------------------------- I enjoy this scene for certain reasonings. I wonder things too though. Why did Robo malfunction so bad when his hand came off? Is it cause the data spike was so important to his main systems? How did Angie know to aim so perfectly with the electro gun? I think Robo lost most power from being electrocuted therefore he lost his strength and his power to move a lot. He could barely stand up after shocking Angie. It's interesting the first things the guys go for after tying him down was his legs instead of his upper body. Also didn't someone have the original script or something with Angie shooting off Robo's face? Can someone repost that? What I like about the comic adaptation was how sorta different it was. Maybe even more brutal? http://i.imgur.com/SV2n9.jpg ----------------------------------- KidGoesWild Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:52 pm ----------------------------------- The shooting off the hand mirrors what Bodicker did to Murphy the first time around. severed/shotoff hand isnt something to brush off, it may not leave any permanent damage (and it didnt, he forgot the hand soon after), but there will be an initial shock/pain As for Angie aiming, well, shes fluent with guns so I dont se why wouldnt she be with this one. She was also the one shooting the gas grenade so Im guessing shes a very good shot As for starting with his legs...well, again the reson is torture. As Joker said "dont start with the head, the victim gets all fuzzy". It was also the legs that Bodicker started with. He hit murphy with a shotgun sending him to the floor. So in short, they wanted to torture him, play with him while killing him so they started with legs first, something that wouldnt kill him. Then moved to torso and ended on the head. That for me is a great rhyme to the first story and also adds more pathos to the character who has to go through the same thing again, and its also great because most movies show robots as invincible ITEMS, yet here Robocop is shown as also being helpless sometimes and as a hurting human character in pain _____________________________ http://robocopmovies.blogspot.com/ ----------------------------------- Maxlee Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:43 am ----------------------------------- You defend your movie well, KidGoesWild :yessir: But don't get me wrong here. This scene has been close to traumatising me for life. Seriously. RoboCop used to be my hero, but now whenever I see him I think about how he'd look like being cut in half... I simply can not agree with the decision to portray the movie's hero in such a way. You can't really compare it to Murphy's killing. Back in Robo1, Murphy was our established main character, yes, and we were rooting for him, yes. But he was not yet a hero. After his transformation to RoboCop and him asskicking about, he became a hero. The opening of RoboCop 2 has him kicking ass and taking names for half an hour. That's our hero. And then this scene happens. I understand the need to humanize our character, to show him vulnerable. It's a basic movie trope actually. hero gets kicked down, hero gets better, hero defeats obstacle. But was it really necesary to have him beaten in such a way that everyone has to defend the movie by saying "the villains stop at a point because otherwise there wouldn't be a movie anymore". Isn't that just lazy scriptwriting ? That's why I was bringing up anti armor weapons and ED209's and what not. If the scriptwriter really wanted Robo damaged, there were a ton of options available which might have been better watchable and made more sense in the long term. So yeah. I HAVE to pick the scenes apart and look for mistakes, errors and awkward scriptwriting. It's my way of dealing with this traumatising experience. I have to view the scenes as simply scenes filmed by a film crew who wanted to shoot an action movie, otherwise I'd be weeping my eyes out every night over Robo getting stripped to pieces. Chaos One, do you also have the page showing the news broadcast where Cain tells the people "they sent their mightiest weapon, RoboCop, after us, and we sent it back in pieces", or something along those lines. It helps shed some light as to why Cain's crew didn't butcher his head into smithereens and thus ending the movie right there and then. Supposedly these comics are made from early scripts and drafts and things like Robo grabbing the robbed store owner by the neck, Robo visiting his grave, and Robo visiting Faxx's lab are in the comic, so it's safe to assume this mediabreak snippet was in the script at some point in time. Wish it was kept in, it ALMOST completes the dismemberment scenes and stops making us wonder why and how. ----------------------------------- Josh Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:58 am ----------------------------------- I'll tell you what, the comic doesn't look too bad. Robo seems to be showing more pain which I like because maybe Robo is a bit over confident when he goes for Cain. The jackhammer on the face is brutal, and the final line of "Hey! I think we broke it, guys!" is sadistic. Cain and his gang had fun. ----------------------------------- KidGoesWild Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:40 am ----------------------------------- Y If the scriptwriter really wanted Robo damaged, there were a ton of options available which might have been better watchable But this has been the standard set by the first movie. The world of the first 2 movies is very brutal and sadistic, and the events very graphic and disturbing. Plus the Robocop world was never meant to be technically accurate or fully logical, its in a large part a satire. A violent, heartfelt and action packed, but still a satire _____________________________ http://robocopmovies.blogspot.com/ ----------------------------------- chaos one Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:41 am ----------------------------------- This one? http://i.imgur.com/iYuWu.jpg also, man Angie looked really really hot in the comic http://i.imgur.com/nDmCV.jpg ----------------------------------- KidGoesWild Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:55 am ----------------------------------- also, man Angie looked really really hot in the comic She did in the movie too! :) http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a277/lovegunner/Batman/angie-1.png _____________________________ http://robocopmovies.blogspot.com/ ----------------------------------- chaos one Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:04 am ----------------------------------- Indeed she did. I guess if any bad guy were to bring Robo to his knees I'm glad it was a very hot lady like Angie. ----------------------------------- chaos one Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:27 am ----------------------------------- Also if anyone has any legit complains about that scenes it's not the nitpicks of disappearing claw marks or right hand being reattatched. It's that Why didn't Robo see anything? Why did he not see the mounted machine gun, it's pretty plain to see. Why not spot any of the guys hiding and shooting at him? Also since I watched this scene way too many times I think I can figure out how the sequence of damage done to Robo. -Asian guy with Sledgehammer to mid section? -Looks like Catzo with hammer and chisel either on the chest or most likely the section under his chest plate while Angie leans in. You can see the asian guy in the back using a blowtorch on Robo's knee or leg, Hob watches him do it. -There's sort of a jump cut Again Catzo chisel but on the visor now while everyone leans in and watches, he finally cracks it, damaging Robo's vision for good. Catzo stops cause he's tired before breaking any more of it. -Catzo readies the jackhammer on Robo's leg. It doesn't work really to break it off. Hob says try at the joint that connects to his hip and he does, it works breaking through the cables or whatever connecting him. They probably unchained it ahead of time and it falls to the floor twitching, you can see the blowtorch burn marks on his leg. -Asian guy brings a industrial strength saw on the mid section , it seems to be working but the asian dude stops anyways for some reason. -(CUT FROM MOVIE) A jump cut In deleted scenes you can see Angie playing with the detached foot of Robo, smiling and showing it to Robo before Hob takes it away from her. -Again another jump cut, Catzo is chiseling again, Hob is holding up a cable spraying oil or whatever, it sprays on Catzo (this probably the cable came from Robo's open mid section) He turns and sprays the oil on Robo's face. Asian guy is seen below with a industrial strength drill drilling on some part of Robo's lower section. It stops but i'm guessing they just de-helmeted him and so on. I wish I could see every little thing they do, out of curiousity. ----------------------------------- RoboPimp Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:49 am ----------------------------------- It's that Why didn't Robo see anything? Why did he not see the mounted machine gun, it's pretty plain to see. Why not spot any of the guys hiding and shooting at him? Maybe he got cocky. After all, he's only...human (well, you get the point.) ----------------------------------- Josh Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:43 am ----------------------------------- Maybe he got cocky. After all, he's only...human (well, you get the point.) I always believe in this scene Robo is over confident, taking time in his kill and suffering for it. ----------------------------------- KidGoesWild Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:43 pm ----------------------------------- Maybe he got cocky. After all, he's only...human (well, you get the point.) I always believe in this scene Robo is over confident, taking time in his kill and suffering for it. yeah, plus I think so does the audience thinking Robos invincible and will destroy anytime he comes in. So thats also whats great about it, that both the udience and Robo got a painfulo surprise and doze of "reality" _____________________________ http://robocopmovies.blogspot.com/ ----------------------------------- RoboPimp Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:56 pm ----------------------------------- One of my favorite things about Robocop 2 is how his personality has changed since the end of the first Robo. At the start of Robocop 2 it seems he's finaly starting to feel somewhat comfortable in his skin, but at the same time he's dealing with his inner demons in a much more personal way than the first Robocop. When he targets Cain and his gang he actually feels like the hero he's been made out to be. That's why this scene is so harrowing. We want to feel like Robocop has finally arrived as the indestructible legend, and when he is violated, both by Cain's gang and then Dr. Faxx, it's painful. For me watching this series of events is worse than watching Murphy get shot to death because the torture here is so much more sadistic. ----------------------------------- chaos one Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:04 pm ----------------------------------- It's that Why didn't Robo see anything? Why did he not see the mounted machine gun, it's pretty plain to see. Why not spot any of the guys hiding and shooting at him? Maybe he got cocky. After all, he's only...human (well, you get the point.) True. This panel kinda confirms it http://i.imgur.com/4IRPq.jpg I sorta wish this was in the movie rather than Angie just turning and running. http://i.imgur.com/0CrgB.jpg it's nice to have a little interaction ----------------------------------- Yrtti Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:59 pm ----------------------------------- Its weird that sometimes robo seems to be almost indesctructible,(Falling off a 100 storage skyscraper,getting shot off like a 50 swat team members,getting shot and smacked around by a two huge robots,getting smashed by tons of metal without losing a single limb) And then cain and his crew takes him apart in seconds with some crappy drill and saw. And Why robocop would walk into a pretty obvious trap with all his tracking radar and thermal tech? I Have loved robocop 2 since i was a small boy,but this scene has always pissed me off for so many reasons! :D Sorry for my bad english byt the way(im from Finland :) ----------------------------------- Archive Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:15 pm ----------------------------------- Why robocop would walk into a pretty obvious trap with all his tracking radar and thermal tech? I guess it is just one of those things Robo always does. He did it as Murphy in the beginning of the first movie and then later as Robo in the drug factory. He also did the same thing with the Rehab HQ in RoboCop3. It seems to be Robo's main strategy. Just walk in. Sometimes it works, other times not so much. ----------------------------------- Yrtti Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:29 pm ----------------------------------- Why robocop would walk into a pretty obvious trap with all his tracking radar and thermal tech? I guess it is just one of those things Robo always does. He did it as Murphy in the beginning of the first movie and then later as Robo in the drug factory. He also did the same thing with the Rehab HQ in RoboCop3. It seems to be Robo's main strategy. Just walk in. Sometimes it works, other times not so much. Yea thats a good point, Its just strange that robo doesent seem to care much about anything when he walks inside the factory but a one scene before he fools the bad guys with the car explosion like he would know they are planning something for him and seemed a lot smarter and carefull. ----------------------------------- KidGoesWild Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:36 pm ----------------------------------- Why robocop would walk into a pretty obvious trap with all his tracking radar and thermal tech? I guess it is just one of those things Robo always does. He did it as Murphy in the beginning of the first movie and then later as Robo in the drug factory. He also did the same thing with the Rehab HQ in RoboCop3. It seems to be Robo's main strategy. Just walk in. Sometimes it works, other times not so much. Yea thats a good point, Its just strange that robo doesent seem to care much about anything when he walks inside the factory but a one scene before he fools the bad guys with the car explosion like he would know they are planning something for him and seemed a lot smarter and carefull. Well he didnt know he was being watched. He thought he fooled them but the joke was on him. They were watching him all the time and they were strategically placed As for robo surviving falls and all that and getting dismantled by thugs. the big difference here is that they were targeting joints. They even adress it in the movie that the drill doesnt really do much so Hob sugested joints _____________________________ http://robocopmovies.blogspot.com/ ----------------------------------- RoboPimp Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:30 am ----------------------------------- Its just strange that robo doesent seem to care much about anything when he walks inside the factory but a one scene before he fools the bad guys with the car explosion like he would know they are planning something for him and seemed a lot smarter and carefull. I've always thought Robo was a little suicidal. Or at the very least he doesn't give a fuck. I mean, he was killed in about the most horrible fashion a cop could, and then denied death and brought back for an indefinite amount of service so I would understand if he's a bit bitter. ----------------------------------- Deus Ex Robo Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:22 pm ----------------------------------- BAM. ----------------------------------- chaos one Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:02 am ----------------------------------- I just thought of something. How can the claw of that gun Angie had , how can the claw tear into Robo's chest? ----------------------------------- RoboPimp Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:08 am ----------------------------------- I just thought of something. How can the claw of that gun Angie had , how can the claw tear into Robo's chest? It takes place in the future, a world with technology more advanced than ours. Case closed. ----------------------------------- chaos one Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:10 am ----------------------------------- Ah okay ----------------------------------- Yrtti Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:11 pm ----------------------------------- I just thought of something. How can the claw of that gun Angie had , how can the claw tear into Robo's chest? And how come angie didnt die when robo electrocuted her from his arm? I mean It was shock powerful enough to throw her trough the air. :opps: ----------------------------------- Zentron Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:27 pm ----------------------------------- And how come angie didnt die when robo electrocuted her from his arm? I mean It was shock powerful enough to throw her trough the air. :opps:As somebody who has been electrocuted with enough charge to throw them through the air, the fact she survived is not that unbelievable! ----------------------------------- Rick Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:45 pm ----------------------------------- She also looked like she really hurt her neck when she landed, (or should I say the stunt woman did), but a few moments later she's standing over Robo giving him dirty looks whilst he's getting pulled apart. Guess she felt fine after all! ----------------------------------- chaos one Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:27 am ----------------------------------- She also looked like she really hurt her neck when she landed, (or should I say the stunt woman did), but a few moments later she's standing over Robo giving him dirty looks whilst he's getting pulled apart. Guess she felt fine after all! lol yeah. Actually I thought she was holding her hands cause they hurt. ----------------------------------- KidGoesWild Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:44 am ----------------------------------- I just thought of something. How can the claw of that gun Angie had , how can the claw tear into Robo's chest? Umm, well I think its rather obvious and the answers in your post - its metal claws. Shot off from a pressure gun, why wouldnt three sharp claws cling into metal plate? I just thought of something. How can the claw of that gun Angie had , how can the claw tear into Robo's chest? And how come angie didnt die when robo electrocuted her from his arm? I mean It was shock powerful enough to throw her trough the air. :opps: Remember Jurassic Park? Timmy got a much bigger shot and was shot of like a rocket for meters away. Electric shock like this can be dangerous but not fatal. C'mon now, we're really looking for holes here ______________________________________________ http://robocopmovies.blogspot.com/ ----------------------------------- RoboPimp Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:51 am ----------------------------------- I don't understand why this specific scene of Robocop being dismantled is itself being dismantled more than Robocop himself was. ----------------------------------- NOF Mon May 20, 2013 6:09 pm ----------------------------------- Rewatched R2 for the first time in ages last night. Still find this scene horrific. And it's still annoying to see him not fight back. Although the scrambled POV suggests the crane did a bit of damage, he still looks strong enough to rip the chains off. It would have been more palatable if shots of Ellen crying outside the police station and Holzgang (?) telling him he is "simply a machine" were interspaced with the POV shots. That way, it would suggest he has lost the will to live. ----------------------------------- Sideromelane Tue May 21, 2013 7:12 am ----------------------------------- The justification for the magnet probably has a lot to do with the myth of magnets disrupting/destroying computers, remember this movie was made when computers were still very much in their infancy compared to what we have now. And while it is true it actually takes an enormously powerful magnet (far more powerful than available to the average Joe sitting at home poking his floppy disks with fridge magnets), something like a scrapyard electromagnet would not only be able to immobilize Robo (all those steel parts pinned flat) but the EM field being generated could also induce some hefty stray currents in his chassis. More than enough to short out any induction coils in his circuitry, any motors in his limbs would likely cease to function, or blow massive current spikes back through to his powerplant/battery. 'Magnets' disrupting electronics is somewhat of a myth, but it *is* scientifically plausible a sufficiently powerful electromagnet could shut down/paralyze Robocop, given the technology of the era. I also assumed (need to rewatch the scene to be sure) that he was strapped to a magnetic bench too, while they were breaking him up. A friend of mine used to work in a sheet metal cutting plant, and it was important to leave anything metal including (especially) piercings in the lockers, otherwise the bench could rip them straight out. Essentially it's just a workbench styled version of the crane magnet... EDIT: On reviewing the scene, it's not a magnetic bench, but those are some hefty chains and he's clearly already damaged. If I'm correct about what the script SAYS happened, then the electromagnet in the crane would have severely damaged/fried most of his servos/motors and blown out most of his computer support. in other words, strapping him down with chains is more of a precaution than a necessity. Also that taser weapon they hit him with must have packed some serious juice in it's own right. ----------------------------------- Raymond Tue May 21, 2013 1:26 pm ----------------------------------- I have no problem with them taking Robocop apart and being able to keep it down, but the real problem is why they risk going to a police station and toss it out, no matter if its a strike going on. It's a risky operation for any criminal and it taunts the police.If they wanted to make a statement why not crucify it somewhere or put it's head on a spike or some other nasty thing, then let people stumple upon it whenever they find it. That's what a character like Cain had done rather than dumping it back to the police. I think deep within most viewers felt that Robocop got away easy considering how ruthless Cain is (remember the scene with the dirty cop) They could have taken him apart in the factory but why not have Lewis and some cops show up and rescue Robocop in a tense scene exactly when they intend to kill it for real, for example by crushing the torso in a compactor or some other heavy machine. Could have been some real tense stuff and removed that "cop out" Robocop got. I agree the script wasn't good. I don't like when characters are given a free card by the villain. If the villain wants to play and torture the victim and then ends up paying for it due to some unforseen event (hero escapes or gets rescued) it's one thing. But having all the time in the world like Cain's gang and still give a free pass: NOT OK. In some sense the only reason Robocop is alive is that they had mercy. And considering Robocop's kill record I think he would be the last to get mercy from any gang in Detroit. Criminals tend to hate cops big time. A supercop would get super-hate if that makes any sense. ----------------------------------- Archive Tue May 21, 2013 1:47 pm ----------------------------------- From Cain's point of view it is more of a show of power. As shown in a deleted scene, and the comic adaptation, Cain is fearlessly mocking the police by giving them Robo back in pieces. Sure, you could debate whether they should have finished the job but much like Clarence leaving Murphy for dead maybe they figured it was just a matter of time or that the half dead and in pain cyborg was a more powerful statement. http://robocoparchive.com/forum/robo2-dismantled.jpg ----------------------------------- artuditu Tue May 21, 2013 3:01 pm ----------------------------------- Thanks Archive. The message is much clear in that comic strip, it could have worked great in the film; it is a message to the whole city, not only the police, as if the city would fill with dismay and become terrorized by Cain when they see what he did to Robo (plus the police strike, there isn't really that feeling of a city in panic as we would get in films like "The Dark Knight" / "The Dark Knight Rises"). Cain is somewhat hinted in the film as a kind of terrorist/ideologist that uses the Media to launch messages (see his video in the TV News at the beginning, and the bombing of a drug rehabilitation center). But we really see that idea developed again only when Hob offers to rescue the city with drug money. By the way, if Robo was a superhero R2 would stablish his kryptonite... A big magnet! Another argument for the pro-2014 fans :lol: ----------------------------------- Raymond Tue May 21, 2013 3:45 pm ----------------------------------- yeah but if that was the intention they could have spelled it out. Have Cain taunt the police with some radio speech or what not. For the first movie I always thought Boddickers final shot in the was the "coupe the grace". He even says something like -Okay, fun's over and then shot's him straight in the head. That's a 100% intended kill imo. The fault there is Lewis. The gang leave her both as a lose end and as a prime witness for some reason. But to stay on topic the good part about the disassembly scene is that it highlights that Robocop can be in a lot of pain. Touching on the same discomfort level as the kill of Murphy in R1. The hero completely helpless and sadistic criminals toying around. But Alex Murphy showed much bravery and defiance in that scene in R1 while in R2, as discussed, Robocop more or less just lies down and takes it because of the damage. I agree the scene had been better if Robocop struggled against the chains/magnet with the very last of his power. ----------------------------------- chaos one Tue May 21, 2013 6:09 pm ----------------------------------- I would've at least liked to see them prying off the helmet. And definitely more angie, hell the entire movie needed more angie ----------------------------------- Maxlee Thu May 23, 2013 9:31 pm ----------------------------------- I've been tinkering to create a topic about this subject for a long time now, but I saw this topic bumped and remembered that I already replied to great detail in this topic, but mostly about the filming mistakes they made in the movie. I just want to establish one more time how the dismemberment scenes messed me up for life. Like most of you I was just a little kid when the first RoboCop movie came out. Although I remember all too well me and my brother being too scared to watch the Murphy killing and to a lesser extent zombie-Emil, it was still our favorite movie and RoboCop was our favorite character. I still remember being in some videostore or shop and it had a copy of Robo2. On the back of the case was a picture of a dismembered RoboCop (with a comment saying "RoboCop is almost defeated") and a picture of Lewis in front of RoboCain. I asked my brother if he thought this badass looking robot was the reason RoboCop was "almost defeated". I can't remember how stoked I was when Robo2 aired on the television for the first time, but needless to say the whole family gathered round to watch more ass-kicking from our cyborg hero. I vaguely remember my mother saying something like "that's so sad" at the sight of dumped RoboCop parts, and I think I responded with "ah they'll fix him anyways" at that age already figuring out that the movie (and entire franchise!) would end right there and then if Robo would seriously die. At the end of the movie my brother asked how I liked the movie, me replying that RoboCain was pretty much the coolest thing ever, and we both agreed that everything else prior to that in the movie was forgettable. But the damage had been done. Damage to my mind. RoboCop 3. RoboCop the Series. RoboCop the Cartoon. Every friggin single episode. I was DEAD afraid something like this would happen to RoboCop again. That the badguys would capture him and tear him apart. I now realise that RoboCop being damaged is one of the most recurring plots scriptwriters came up with for the character, and being as over the top as Robo2 is, the movie pretty much made "RoboCop is damaged" as extreme as you can get. It couldn't get any worse than what Cain's gang did to him. Regardless, I was still afraid that everytime I watched a new episode RoboCop would go through a similar experience. Afterwards, for years, I avoided Robo2 as the plague. Whenever I saw in the TV magazine that Robo2 would air, I would get creeped out and scared shitless that my brother or parents would accidentally tune in and watch it, where as I would basically have to hide in my room, with my hands on my ears going LALALA this isn't happening. Eventually there almost wouldn't go a day by that I wasn't thinking about the dismemberment. Eventually growing older and with Youtube at hand, I decided to brace myself and watch this scene once again, facing my demons if you will. I guess I have to say it wasn't as bad as it had gotten in my mind. Like I posted earlier in this topic, I tried to "lessen" the impact of the dismemberment, by viewing it from a movie making view. Hence my nitpicking of all the errors. While watching the scenes I noticed this and that mistake, which kinda reset my mind into a "see it's just a movie scene made by movie makers" standpoint. Still. I'm not healed. Without this scene, I would still be a RoboCop junkie. I would have RoboCop posters on the walls, RoboCop figures displayed, and all that good stuff. I do like RoboCain, so I do own the Kotobukiya RoboCain, but I don't display it, I keep it hidden deep away. Why? Because it reminds me of RoboCop 2. Which in turn reminds me to RoboCop being chained to a table getting taken apart brutally. I still like the first RoboCop movie, but in secret. When I lie on bed with my eyes closed, I automatically start to think about RoboCop strapped to a table. I imagine ways they could have improved the plot (have Lewis and a police squad track RoboCop down with the location tracker and free him from Cain's gang) and I imagine ways in which they could have gone totally gore and make RoboCop 2 into a total horror gore fest (Cain wants priority in his gang removing RoboCop's helmet. Upon doing so, Cain climbs on the table and sits on RoboCop's chest. He takes a stiletto knife out of his jacket. From RoboCop's point of view we see Cain maniacally cut, carve and stab into RoboCop's face, as the screen fills red. When RoboCop's remains are dumped in front of the police station, the display is too horrific to type out. Somehow RoboCop's brain survives and with movie magic and the power of science-fixes-everything, RoboCop gets better anyhow.) So that's how it stands today. Here I am, 29 years old, typing this out. No longer horrorfied of the dismantling scenes, but as a young kid, it left a scar behind to this day. I try to laugh at RoboCop2 for all it's plotholes and errors and mistakes to soften the impact it once did to me, but as you can tell, it's still with me. RoboCop as a character has been defiled to me. Whenever I see RoboCop, I see him strapped to a table ready to nearly die. I've been wanting to type something like this out for a very long time. Seeing this topic bumped made me try this opportunity. I'll probably get laughed at and flamed and the reason this topic goes to hell, but I care for one thing. That typing this out is another step towards healing. Peace. ----------------------------------- chaos one Wed May 29, 2013 9:24 pm ----------------------------------- I think I would've liked the original idea of the car building robots taking apart robocop. ----------------------------------- Maxlee Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:09 pm ----------------------------------- I came up with something that would have worked wonders for this dismemberment plot. What's the one important thing from RoboCop 1 that is strangely missing in RoboCop 2? Directive 4. Faxx would have in secret added Cain to the database of OCP officers. When RoboCop starts aiming at Cain when apprehending him, he experiences the same ... troubles as when he did with Jones. Since in the first movie this chain of events is pretty much interrupted by a pissed off ED-209, we never get to see fully what directive 4 is capable of. Since Cain doesn't have a pet ED-209 barging in, RoboCop experiences a shutdown while he keeps trying with all his might to grab Cain by the neck. From a RoboCop point of view we see him ... poof ... shut down. When next RoboCop boots up and wakes up, he's magically chained to a workbench, with one of Cain's crooks shouting like "Cain, he woke up!" and Cain and gang come walking in. Now they start to torture and destroy RoboCop pretty much unchanged from as in the movie, but now it would make a lot more sense why they don't kill him off and why they drop his parts off at the police station. With directive 4 in place, RoboCop can't do anything to Cain... Maybe you can see where this is going by now ... After being dismembered, RoboCop is ofcourse repaired (over 1 night it always seems like to me) and gets the junkload of silly directives, crippling him even further. But then ... RoboCop electrocutes himself and erases all of his directives. Payback time! Imagine Cain's surprise when RoboCop leads the cop squad into Cain's hideout and starts firing away. With directive 4 out of the picture, RoboCop can finally take down Cain. Only for Cain to transform into an invincible stop-motion puppet. But that's for another time! ----------------------------------- Stan The Man Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:32 pm ----------------------------------- Quite interesting, Maxlee. Certainly sounds a bit more plausible then just RoboCop going in bold as brass and then getting inexplicably owned with little to no fighting back (which I agree is something I hate that did start with R2). Of course, he's RoboCop so I would have expected nothing less than going on with all bravado - after all, it's sorta what he did when he was Murphy anyway. Still wouldn't explain why the other striking cops would join Robo later, but, that too is another story. :b Anyway, I can understand why that scene left such a big shock on you. I get it, none of us wanted to see Robo like that, especially after what happened in the first movie (you could say it's a parallel), but I always knew eventually 'they'll fix him' and they indeed did, and after a slight interlude, Robo went back to business. Interestingly enough, we never seen him totally dismembered anywhere else (not that I can recall), The other times, he's knocked down, and then blown up and just frame/body damaged, maybe lost a limb or something, but never full broken down like that again. ----------------------------------- Maxlee Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:14 pm ----------------------------------- There is one instance where I remember RoboCop getting damaged more than in RoboCop 2: the 4 part RoboCop versus The Terminator comic book series. If I remember correctly, some spider-ish tentacle Terminator robot that was sent back to the present time battles RoboCop and succeeds in beheading him. This because Skynet needs RoboCop's man/machine thingamabob so that it can kickstart itself. Or something. But yeah Stan The Man, ofcourse it's the principle of the whole thing, as in my opinion, only an insane writer would come up with the idea of having RoboCop strapped to a table and getting globberstomped into pieces. I mean what's up with that? Ofcourse our "hero" getting captured is a standard trope for storytelling, but isn't it usually the case that the sidekick (Lewis?) would rescue the hero, or our hero has some hidden gadget to free himself (data spike? left leg holster?). How many times were Batman and James Bond captured and tied up by the badguy and able to free themselves one way or another? Did they ever just get cut up in pieces and ditched for scrap? Then there's the whole execution of the thing. Hob magically shoots some magically correctly placed super-machinegun which shoots off Robo's hand in like 3 shots. Then, my personal most annoying one, Angie fires an unexplained sci-fi looking weaponthing that seems to exist for only one purpose: to zap cyborgs. Where does the weapon come from? Then there's the magical crane to the head followed by the conveniently quick and in time car magnet. It's like they took the most annoyingly wrong ways to damage RoboCop. No Cobra Bazooka to the wrist. No ED-209 to the face. No landmine that blows his legs off. No anti-armor grenade that hits him precisely in the right spot. No, his hand gets shot off by what would seem weaponry he shrugged off in RoboCop 1, an unexplained weapon that shocks him, and then conveniently placed industrial machinery that hits him precisely where it needs to. If all that wasn't enough, it's followed up by the well known plothole of "Why didn't Cain & gang kill RoboCop off when they had the chance", which in my opinion is just sloppy storytelling. I know a lot of RoboCop 2 defenders will hit me on the head, and will fire off their counters of "Cain had a trap set up for RoboCop", "Cain wants to taunt RoboCop and the police" and "a movie should not have to tell you everything" but for me it's just sloppy storywriting, when, most importantly, a whole ton of smarter ideas could have been written instead. I often compare this dismemberment ordeal with the likes of KITT from Knightrider and Johnny 5 from Short Circuit 2. KITT was damaged near death a couple of times, and most of the time this was taken as a very big deal. In one episode, KITT, after nearly being destroyed for good, is traumatised and is scared to continue doing his usual heroic schtick. Johnny 5 was sort of dismembered in a similar matter, and the rest of the movie was spent how Johnny 5 was effectively dying and had to capture the badguy before he would die completely. And those examples aren't mature movies like RoboCop, they're children shows! As for RoboCop 2 ?? Well they hang him on some wires, stare at him for 1 scene, and 3 scenes later he's repaired on a table and the whole event is never spoken of again. I mean what? Our main character was almost killed for frikkin' good! He spends like 2 scenes in Robo-limbo-coma and then he's suddenly repaired. I mean seriously. How more interesting would it have been if RoboCop was like traumatised too and/or scared of Cain or something? I mean anything? Then he gets the crazy directives, fries himself, captures the badguy, battles a cyborg and ends on a note that we are all human. For something that pretty much traumatised me for life, and as far as I can tell, atleast left an impression on most of you guys, it's pretty disconnecting that nobody in the movie seems shocked about it that our hero was almost no more. That's just what bugs me so much. It just happens. And then nothing. Our main character kicks some ass here and there, shoots some baddies, some OCP lawyer is making him feel sad and stuff and then ... RoboCop gets dismantled to near death. That should be pretty huge you know. But no, 3 scenes later and everything is fine again and it's comedy time with the crazy directives. Pfff. That's what I mean when I always call RoboCop 2 a clipshow. A clipshow of things just happening and either not getting resolved at all or just pushed aside like, welp that was that ... now for THIS! ----------------------------------- ChAnOoD Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:09 pm ----------------------------------- Johnny 5 was sort of dismembered in a similar matter, and the rest of the movie was spent how Johnny 5 was effectively dying and had to capture the badguy before he would die completely. And those examples aren't mature movies like RoboCop, they're children shows! That scene was pretty graphic for a child movie. I remember when I saw it when I was a child and I was pretty disgusted by that scene. Was... Nasty. I always asked to myself if that was a nod to Robo 2 or something (but it looks the sequel of Short Circuit came first). Looks like I really care more for robots or cyborgs than humans :b ----------------------------------- Stan The Man Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:29 am ----------------------------------- True about the RvsT comic, I was thinking of moving media so I missed that. Even so I think that was the only other instance. Much as I love and care for R2, I will be the first to agree with you that story and narrative-wise, it's a total mess. After seeing some of those deleted scenes from the workprint, leaving some of those in there might have added a little bit of cohesion to the whole thing. Not much, but a bit. Oh well. Back to topic, I always wonder (on occasion) how RoboCop is actually built in the sense he could be taken apart, from a maintenance standpoint. There are obvious showings - removal of the helmet, showing a whole replacement leg in an episode of the Series, the wrist twisting off in R3, but other parts aren't shown. And some pieces it isn't clear how they would attach/detach and such. I suppose a fair bit of it could be internal connections only but what about others? Yeah I know in actuality it's not something that can be explored much as it's actually a suit, but still something I ponder here and there. ----------------------------------- RoboPimp Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:12 am ----------------------------------- This reminds me of a scene in my Johnny-5 erotic fanfic... ----------------------------------- Rick Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:23 am ----------------------------------- I'd like to read that......... Don't look at me like that! I agree though, that scene in Short Circuit 2 where Johnny 5 gets destroyed is sad to watch, I mean he's begging for his life and is defenceless. The scenes of him limping about and trying to do the right thing before dying are also sad. But remember this, Johnny is an $11m military robot designed to be able to withstand desert and jungle habitats and take on human soldiers. He was easily overpowered and then all it took was an axe and a crowbar to seriously fuck him up. If he was supposed to be so tough and withstand gunfire during a war (and he did get shot in the first movie) then why were some garden shed tools all that was required to practically kill him in SC 2? Why didn't he fight back instead of just lying there and taking it? Why did Robo not at least try and fight back or cover his ass in some form during the attack from Cain and his gang? He stood still after the initial attack and let everything happen to him instead of trying to find cover or even getting out of the building. Their gunfire was mostly ineffective against him, so he could have easily ran out of the building or overpowered one of them, took their gun and used it against the rest of them. Perhaps (and this is just my over-active mind here!) getting the same hand shot off twice caused some sort of brain freeze in Murphy's mind which is why he stood there, shook and held the stump in disbelief pretty much what he did in the first movie as a human. By the time the electricity snapped him out of it and he started to retaliate it was too late. ----------------------------------- artuditu Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:47 am ----------------------------------- I think you're missing some suicidal undertone in Robo's motivation at that particular moment, I've always had the feeling he just let himself go, he doesn't fight back as much as he could, there is some kind of internal struggle between dying at last or fulfilling his duty against crime and nuke, and to me it's not a hole in the screenplay at all, it actually connects with Murphy renouncing to his wife and family some scenes before (after behaving almost like a stalker!) The movie starts with deep psychological undertones, and Cain not killing Robo but making him suffer (a second crucifixion) just reinforces his personality as a messiah obsessed with symbols and metaphors, and not a rational person that would not pass the chance to kill Robo. In fact I think he feels sorry for him, "I don't blame you. They program you, and you do it". The problem is the movie underdeveloping Robo's character after his reprogramming and chasing Cain. The story develops well enough all the storylines about the city Mayor and OCP takeover of the city, Cain becoming R2 through Faxx, Hob and Angie trying to rule the "family" business. It's just Robo that completely disappears until the end, when he just acts as an action hero to stop R2, his motivations and character development are null at the end. ----------------------------------- chaos one Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:08 pm ----------------------------------- I think you're missing some suicidal undertone in Robo's motivation at that particular moment, I've always had the feeling he just let himself go, he doesn't fight back as much as he could, there is some kind of internal struggle between dying at last or fulfilling his duty against crime and nuke, and to me it's not a hole in the screenplay at all, it actually connects with Murphy renouncing to his wife and family some scenes before (after behaving almost like a stalker!) The movie starts with deep psychological undertones, and Cain not killing Robo but making him suffer (a second crucifixion) just reinforces his personality as a messiah obsessed with symbols and metaphors, and not a rational person that would not pass the chance to kill Robo. In fact I think he feels sorry for him, "I don't blame you. They program you, and you do it". The problem is the movie underdeveloping Robo's character after his reprogramming and chasing Cain. The story develops well enough all the storylines about the city Mayor and OCP takeover of the city, Cain becoming R2 through Faxx, Hob and Angie trying to rule the "family" business. It's just Robo that completely disappears until the end, when he just acts as an action hero to stop R2, his motivations and character development are null at the end. I absolutely agree with this post. Plus I think that the sexy Angie's electro gun device was enough to drain Robo's energy, if they did in fact get the weapon from Dr. Faxx like the deleted scenes would've suggested then it was technically enough to stop or partially stop Robocop and it worked. He was out of energy and could barely stand up, he was internally in worse condition than he was when he left the OCP building, plus who knows how much damage losing his right hand has caused seeing as how his data spike was in that hand, that and the fluids splurting out of the stump. Not only that but he was hit in the face with a giant hook from a crane. I hear things like maybe the magnet fried his internal wires and cpu but I don't know if that's true. Like for a second after the magnet is retracting off of Robo's body you can see him weakly move his arms against his restraints but nothing more. Honestly it's weird that his body puts up more of a fight when they're detached , I.E. his legs and hands and arms. ----------------------------------- BurnOne4Robo Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:09 pm ----------------------------------- I dunno, maybe it's just me looking for the simplest explanation to things, but I always thought the reason he didn't fight back during that scene was because he just got jolted with who knows how many volts of electricity. First in his chest, then he uses all his strength to rip that claw off, then sticks it in his "open wound" where the hand got blown off, which i'm sure didn't help the situation. EDIT: Chaos and I posted pretty much the same thing at the same time, lol. ----------------------------------- chaos one Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:38 pm ----------------------------------- He was really surrounded though and he really couldn't get away even if he did somewhat recover. Too many guys around. ----------------------------------- Archive Sat Jul 27, 2013 4:40 pm ----------------------------------- This is just the hobby shrink talking but it looks like there is a clear connection to being scared of that dismantling scene and hating RoboCop2. There seems to be a whole bunch of people that got mental scars from that scene that reflects on the overall opinion on the film. Maybe...? ----------------------------------- ChAnOoD Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:04 pm ----------------------------------- Good question, Archive. When I was a child I was scared as hell by the death of Murphy and Emil. And I spent years watching the whole film except Murph´s death. But I loved the movie anyway. As I said before, for me Robo 2 tries too hard to be more than the first one, but lacks in "soul" (yes, we have the tender and sad moment where he lies to his wife, before stalk her, but that´s all). Got some memorable scenes (the Robo 2 tests are hillarious; the first scene with Robo is classic), but the whole film doesn´t feel good old Robo to me. I wish I could love more Robo 2 (and even 3), but every sequel lacks something from the first (and let´s not talk about the comics). ----------------------------------- Maxlee Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:51 pm ----------------------------------- Well we know it certainly is the case with me. Like I posted before, the dismemberment plot not only ruins the entire R2 movie for me, but almost the entire franchise. There is just a certain lack of style, or dignity or finesse with the whole thing. RoboCop just gets strapped to a table and drilled into pieces and then moments later he's fully repaired again. What should be the main event of the movie that should be worked slowly towards again and then an experience the main character learns from ... it's just there in the middle of the movie. It just suddenly happens and then a couple scenes later it is a done ordeal. Like I've written before, to me it's not only poorly written storytelling ... it's also a big and huge disservice to RoboCop as a character. Like in my other post where I compared it to other characters like KITT or Johnny 5, our main character getting kicked in the balls is a standard storytelling trope. But usually it's a learning moment for our main character or some other form of putting something in place, like our badguy showing might. But even Cain showing his might doesn't really work here, because all he does is just stand there and lets his gang members operate all machinery. Where's our Boddicker grabbing a metal spike and jamming it into Robo's chest in a moment of our main character's weakness ? And RoboCop learning from it? Yeah this is where the cut scene of RoboCop visiting his grave should come in handy. A moment where our main character reflects on what's happening to him. But with it cut, we just have our vague Robo-limbo-coma followed by RoboCop is a goofball followed by the also vague "are we cops" motivational speech which also seems to have been cut short. This is where RoboCop could have grown as a leader character, gathering all his experience to bring the fight back to Cain. When I think RoboCop dismembered I also often think Batman's back broken by Bane. But where Bane was written as a calculating smart villain who used distraction and fatigue to pick off Batman at the worst possible time ... well you know the rest. RoboCop strolls in, Cain stands there and whammo RoboCop gets f*cked. And a couple scenes later ... It just frustrates me to no end. RoboCop 2 could have been thát movie where RoboCop finally faces an enemy so extremely wicked enough that RoboCop is outsmarted or outpowered and almost faces his ultimate death. But yeah, Robo dismembered is just there in the middle of the movie, Cain basically does jackall and there is no proper buildup or reflection. By the way, why does Cain let Duffy get brutally tortured and murdered (also something if I recall correctly Cain/Kong originally did himself in one of the drafts, but here in the movie he just stands there again) ? Duffy basically brought RoboCop to Cain on a silver platter so that Cain could do his thing with him. In the marvel comic Angie says something like "Cain could have been killed you know?!" Well ... maybe Cain shouldn't be an evil druglord if he doesn't like the chances of catching a bullet that much... Anyway like I said before, by typing this out I hope to hit some sort of psychological peace of mind, but yeah between all horrifying R rated action movies I watched as a kid, R2 happens to be the only one to actually mess me up. ----------------------------------- RoboPimp Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:47 pm ----------------------------------- The dismemberment plot not only ruins the entire R2 movie for me, but almost the entire franchise. Interesting choice. I would have gone with Robocpp 3 or Robcop: The Series or Robocop: PD or Robocop: Alpha Commando or any of the post-Dark Horse Robocop comics.... I do like your analogy to Bane though. The difference is there was a LOT more time to set that event up, and then a LOT more time to deal with the repercussions and recovery. Here that all had to be squeezed into a single film along with several other plot-lines, and, well, you saw how that went when they tried to squeeze Bane's story into a Batman movie with several other plot-lines... ----------------------------------- chaos one Sun Jul 28, 2013 5:58 pm ----------------------------------- Well that's always kinda bothered me, he gets stripped, returns after getting repaired and in that time nothing really happened and that's pretty much it. Robo takes no new approach to it besides involving the rest of the police force. Which in a way doesn't do much excepts gets them injured/killed. Robo takes no tactics or anything , just walks in the same way he did before. He shoots a sniper but not a sniper of a heavily armed gun, just some stupid sniper, only cause it wasn't Hob. The only advantage he has the second time is that he caught them off guard. So yeah the whole return and stuff is a little lackluster. Fun Fact: Cain and gang never refer to Robocop by name at all, despite Robo constantly saying Cain's name. ----------------------------------- ChAnOoD Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:22 pm ----------------------------------- It could be interesting to see the "original" Robo-into-pieces scene, according to the Avatar Press comic. Robo trying to save an innocent while a whole builiding collapses and the enemies keep firing rockets into him. ----------------------------------- NOF Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:05 am ----------------------------------- The notion of the magnet blowing out most of his systems is an interesting one. It would make sense of why he did nothing to fight back. Just a pity it wasn't portrayed that way in the film. A few POV shots saying: WARNING: SYSTEM DAMAGE 20% ENERGY LEVELS would have made it a bit clearer to the viewer. Another thought, Robo gets hit by the crane and his view becomes blurry. Yet, when battling RoboCain, gets hit repeatedly around the head and does not appear to do any damage. ----------------------------------- razgriz21 Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:15 pm ----------------------------------- Him being dismantled didn't hold any water like him being murdered when he was a human. To me, it just seemed more of an annoyance and script oversight. That reminds me, I better pick up that comic book adaptation of the original script. ----------------------------------- Stan The Man Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:20 pm ----------------------------------- That reminds me, I better pick up that comic book adaptation of the original script. Go ahead but I very much doubt that will alleviate your disappointment with R2. Anyway I do agree, its a big narrative flaw in the film - He gets dismantled and then he's out of it for quite a bit of time. Odd since he's what the film is about. Only to then come back with the wacky directives, and then rouse the cops up and all that... Bah... Maybe I better quit while I'm ahead, this stuff has been said many times before. I will just say that the dismantling alone was not that big a problem, but to me, more the events that occurred after. Which isn't the point of the topic so much so again, I'll stop there. ----------------------------------- Rob O'Coplin Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:45 pm ----------------------------------- Yeah, when I was a kid, the Dismantling of Robocop was a bit freaky for me. Maybe just as much as when Murphy gets blown away by Clarence and the gang. You guys also touched on the point of Robo getting his car blown up by a rocket in the beginning and he just kinda walks out without a scratch on him and then he somewhat easily gets taken apart by Cain and his guys. Also when the kid says "They say he has a brain, I want to see it", do we assume thaqt because Robo's helmet was off, they checked out his brain and then carefully put everything back together? Or maybe Cain told the kid off camera of course, "No no, its too gruesome for you, maybe we will just take his helmet off instead." ?? I was kinda hoping to see the brain. I mean, they had him at their mercy and the kid wanted to see it...I didn't understand why they added those lines to the film and nothing was really done about it. I'm sure that when they got his helmet off, they could have gotten into the metallic skull and opened his brain up to take a peek. Plus, if I were them, I would have dismantled him and smashed his brain to bits so they would have to deal with him later.. you know, make sure hes dead. Are all criminials, real or movie criminals really this stupid? Why would you take the risk that the Multi-national conglomerate that built the damn thing wouldn't put him back together eventually? Just found it a bit stupid... Stay frosty. ----------------------------------- KidGoesWild Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:43 am ----------------------------------- Yeah, when I was a kid, the Dismantling of Robocop was a bit freaky for me. Maybe just as much as when Murphy gets blown away by Clarence and the gang. You guys also touched on the point of Robo getting his car blown up by a rocket in the beginning and he just kinda walks out without a scratch on him and then he somewhat easily gets taken apart by Cain and his guys. The big difference is, explosion vs being tied down after power loss and double knockout, and having a pneumatic hammer drilling into weak spots at the joints. Robo has been shown to brush off explosions (gas station blowup) but being much more vulnerable when hit up close in weak spots (Clarence spearing Robo) Also when the kid says "They say he has a brain, I want to see it", do we assume thaqt because Robo's helmet was off, they checked out his brain and then carefully put everything back together? Or maybe Cain told the kid off camera of course, "No no, its too gruesome for you, maybe we will just take his helmet off instead." ?? I was kinda hoping to see the brain. I doubt Hob really had much too say other than just babbling like an excited kid. Plus, I always, since the first viewing, understood that Cain didnt want to just kill Robocop because he was much crueler than that. They dismantled him and beat him up to a point where he seemed like a brain damaged, suffering, hopeless being, and they wanted to leave him at that state and also show everyone what theyve done to him, something worse than simply killing him _____________________________ http://robocopmovies.blogspot.com/ ----------------------------------- Rob O'Coplin Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:49 pm ----------------------------------- ................I still would have killed him. I guess I'm more compassionate than Cain :lol: more of a "get the job done" kinda guy. Oh well, thanks for the input. :) ----------------------------------- KidGoesWild Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:57 pm ----------------------------------- ................I still would have killed him. I guess I'm more compassionate than Cain :lol: more of a "get the job done" kinda guy. Oh well, thanks for the input. :) Its a good thing that you don't think like a sadistic psycho man :wink: _____________________________ http://robocopmovies.blogspot.com/ ----------------------------------- Rob O'Coplin Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:35 pm ----------------------------------- ................I still would have killed him. I guess I'm more compassionate than Cain :lol: more of a "get the job done" kinda guy. Oh well, thanks for the input. :) Its a good thing that you don't think like a sadistic psycho man :wink: _____________________________ http://robocopmovies.blogspot.com/ Weeeeeelllll, I would go that far... :twisted: ----------------------------------- NOF Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:18 pm ----------------------------------- Watching R2 again, I honestly don't think there have been many films where the hero is subjected to such humiliating torture. The power in this sequence is seeing Robocop's heroisms so easily dismissed. He walks in all guns blazing and just gets systematically torn apart by these bad guys who seem to know everything about where to hit him, and what weapons to use. Seeing him flung from the car, left in a catatonic state totally debunks the notion of the indestructible hero. Add in the reprogramming sequence, and you get an action film which takes great pride in torturing it's audience. The fact that the film doesn't elaborate on how this affects Murphy's psyche, for me, further fuels the sadistic nature of the scenes. In a way, I get the impression that Murphy would rather forget they happened, otherwise he would have to admit that he can be beaten. ----------------------------------- chaos one Mon Jul 04, 2016 6:44 am ----------------------------------- That's the other thing is how they seemingly know exactly how to attack Robocop and with what weapons. I assume in the cut scenes showing cain/angie talk to faxx that she does talk about planning such a thing? Is that where Angie gets the electro magnet? And the idea where to hit him/move him? ----------------------------------- NOF Mon Jul 04, 2016 6:51 am ----------------------------------- I think so. Wasn't the initial plot that Cain would disable him, Faxx would reprogramme him in such a way that he'd be rendered obsolete by the arrival of Robocop 2? ----------------------------------- chaos one Mon Jul 04, 2016 7:01 am ----------------------------------- I guess it could explain Cain not allowing them to kill him definitely ----------------------------------- artuditu Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:32 pm ----------------------------------- Seeing him flung from the car, left in a catatonic state totally debunks the notion of the indestructible hero. Interestingly as well, it follows the first movie with his visit to arrest Dick Jones and getting his ass kicked. It's as if in both movies he needs to reflect and get help from other cops (Lewis in R1, all the cops on strike in R2). Could be a theme in Robo stories, that being an overconfident lone ranger ends up in disaster, he eventually needs an extra hand to defeat the villains. ----------------------------------- Maxlee Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:59 pm ----------------------------------- If I reply here, does everyone hit their forehead with a slap of the hand in a "oh no not again" kind of thing, or whatever? Because I *STILL* haven't made peace with this sequence of events. I managed to trim my problems with it down to: There is no justification, no reason at all, for RoboCop to survive himself being captured by his mortal enemies, and his subsequent crucification. It doesn't matter what happened in drafts and early scripts and cut scenes. It doesn't matter what Cain's goals and plans are. RoboCop and Cain are enemies. RoboCop should be Detroit's #1 wanted man dead or alive with a bounty on his head in the billions of dollars. When he's captured by his enemies, there's no reason whatsoever that he survives this, no matter what. If RoboCop is captured by the badguys, and Lewis & friends don't rescue him, or if RoboCop can't escape himself by ways of secret gadgets, then it should be absolute game over. The only thing that might help, is if the movie spends a lot of time on Cain who wishes to capture RoboCop in order to do something with him, like brainwashing him with new directives so that RoboCop becomes loyal to Cain or something. Even then still you have the problem of the badguys capturing RoboCop and effectively being able to do anything you can imagine to RoboCop. However, this is not the case. The moment RoboCop is captured is where his bounty should get into play, and he's either auctioned off to the highest bidder, or permanently removed from the face of the earth. Once again, RoboCop surviving capture by the badguys who have the intention to destroy him, does not make any lick of sense. And this still bothers me greatly. ----------------------------------- RoboJOF Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:19 am ----------------------------------- Don't sweat it Maxlee! I love talking Robocop 2! Keep in mind there are a lot of elements of classic heroes and villains in this movie. Perhaps the filmmakers were feeling nostalgic. As you mentioned, Robo walks into a trap and gets dismantled (interesting to point out, he was slick enough to avoid the car blowing up in the mine, but couldn't spot the sniper rifle that blew off his friggin' hand!). The villain explains his plan, and then drops him off where he can get away instead of killing him. Cain's gang could have threw his body down a mine shaft and that would have been the last anyone would see or hear of Robocop. But no, they give his parts back to the police where he can be fixed. They did everything but tie him to a railroad track in the path of an oncoming train! This movie had a lot of great ideas: Faxx using psychology to interfere with computer programming influenced by a human soul, Cain's junkie gang of warriors fighting to keep the city a slave to their own drug business, the looming police strike actually happens (although they really downplayed it), OCP creating a Frankenstein's monster of a cyborg that happens to have Cain's evil brain! All these themes are awesome subplots for a Robocop movie, but they are all competing with each other for screen time. I love the movie, don't get me wrong, but I would have love to see the writers take one of those ideas and see it through. I guess the closest we get is the Cain battle which brings the Robocop 2 story to an end. All the other stuff, Detroit going bankrupt, Faxx's psychological meddling getting undone, OCP avoiding taking the blame, police strike ending, all washed under the bridge. Believe it or not, the last scene with Robo on duty is for me, a great and terrible scene. Its great comedy, but it really overturns the serious beginning of the movie and makes it a little silly. Sequels have a way of taking the serious tone of a movie and making it too light hearted. ----------------------------------- HOB888 Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:53 am ----------------------------------- Cain's nukeheads dropped Murphy in front of the precinct to send a strong signal to the cops, that he cannot be beaten.Cain is persuaded that he is stronger, that's why he also believed he would win again during the car chase.He wasn't interested by Murphy before he raids the nuke sweatshop, and was totally looking for revenge after being sent to the hospital.Cain didn't worship money, he just want to dominate everyone. ----------------------------------- Archive Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:40 pm ----------------------------------- I don't remember when i first viewed RoboCop2 if i found the dismantling scene shocking or disturbing, but at this point in time I'm kind of numb to it. Robo has been blown up and cut up so many times in movies, tv shows and comic that I've gotten used to it. As for the reason Cain leaves Robo alive. Well, I agree it does make little sense. Robo had gotten his helmet removed and Hob wanted to see his brain, so what happened? They just stopped? As HOB888 said, they dropped Robo at the police station to send a strong signal. But that would have worked just as well if Robo was dead. I see it as a typical arrogant thing most villains tend to do. Instead of just shooting the hero in the head and be done with it the villain always leave the hero for dead or assume he will die. Of course Clarence didn't make that mistake in Robo1. He didn't mess around and actually kills the hero. ----------------------------------- Maxlee Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:15 pm ----------------------------------- The notion that RoboCop is tossed back to the cops because Cain thinks himself godlike and invincible is generally the agreed on consensus regarding these chain of events. Personally, I have more peace with the idea that Cain and gang think RoboCop is in a dying state, and thought it fun that he'd die off completely surrounded by fellow cops and friends. This is atleast supported by the statement made by the police station's techie, that RoboCop can "go" any moment. However, both of these notions support the idea that RoboCop survives on "luck" and because his mortal enemy acts "stupid". RoboCop has "luck" that the enemy that captured him was Cain. Were it Boddicker or some other foul being, RoboCop might have just got his head cut off and burried beneath concrete. There's also a conflicting message with Cain saying "One of us must die" and Hob ofcourse who wants to see brains. When RoboCop screams with his face covered in oil, we feel this is the official end of RoboCop. When next he's tossed out on the street, he's sure enough in a horrible state, but I assume most of us had the feeling at that right moment "oh, he'll be repaired". I sometimes lump this together with Duffy's evisceration and Cain's brain surgery: none of it is vital to the movie, and they only serve to frighten the audience. RoboCop getting hit with a cobra cannon in the midst of a Nuke battle out on the streets would have accomplished the same thing. Duffy's arc was essentially over when he's beaten up by RoboCop, and brutally killing him with only Hob and Angie (who should already be Cain's most loyal henchmen) as audience serves no purpose. The brain extraction adds little to the movie, and a cool fade in fade out of Cain dying and lying still in the hospital bed, into his 3D face on the monitor asleep and then suddenly opening the eyes and starting to roar would have worked wonders. Ofcourse, the many many cut scenes and tossed out script pages are mostly to blame for what we got. I believe that if everything was filmed according to plan and kept in the final product, the movie would have made sense, and even RoboCop's destructon at the hand of Cain would have had a proper place in the film. However as the final film is, I just see no point to it. RoboCop strolls in, gets subsequently almost-killed, and is fully repaired 8 scenes later so we can laugh with his silly directives. As one reviewer wrote over this film: R2 wants to convey virtually every emotion in the book: horror, laughter, disgust, comedy, angst, etc. It should have picked one and not flipflop between everything. ----------------------------------- RoboJOF Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:40 am ----------------------------------- Maxlee, you made a lot of good points. I especially liked the comment about Officer Duffy's evisceration. His character was good in the movie and he helped to put a realistic element of corruption fueled by the nuke epidemic. I really liked the first half of the movie with these real-life elements of crime in the big city. It reminded me of the first movie and seemed to be a natural transition. Duffy's torture and murder is the end of the realistic side of the movie. ----------------------------------- Moon-Vixen Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:35 pm ----------------------------------- Hello! SORRY for my english *^^* I think you're right that R2 was a good movie only halfway. In general, I do not like the departure from the realism in this film and the exaggerated imagination of the creators. Generally I liked it in R1 that the only one "overly unrealistic" is RoboCop, which made him more a realistic creation in this film (with the exception of scenes of creating RoboCop, they are fatal). His opponent did not have to be a second cyborg to be really dangerous and curious character. Although the theme itself in R2 is good. Fighting with the drug gang, which has become a new and extremely dangerous threat, that the police have to face, police raid on drug factory, corruption and second RoboCop. I do not know exactly what I would change in this movie, I'm not a writer or director, but the movie should be made more realistic like R1, without unnecessary, weird motives with a small dose of black humor ("Thank you" spoken by Robo after the release of Dick is an exceptionally successful cruel joke). And the motive for destroying RoboCop maybe should looks like that: Cain and his people catch and try going to destroy him, which was not easy, but they were prevented. But they have damaged him so much that it is no longer able to function, as it does in the film and requires expensive and risky repair. Thanks to that, we still have the theme of a cruel OCP that can fix him or maybe not, treat him as a mere thing they can do with whim what it pays the most. I also like the scenes in which Robo shows his feelings (joke about himself that he is a cyborg, scene with his wife) they are necessary, thanks to it we feel that it is still a man (in mega prosthesis =p ). ----------------------------------- tsimisde Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:05 pm ----------------------------------- From my point of view, i find enough similarities between this torture scene and the torture scene from the first movie. Yes, the obvious ones, of course (eg. Right hand gets blown off on both scenes) but another thing comes in mind, Less obvious. I think that Murphy's overconfident and "i got this" attitude, got him in a lot of trouble. On the first movie, even though he is warned that the things are dangerous and the crime rates are high, he doesn't give a s*it. He is overconfident, maybe a bit arrogant and he thinks that he is unbeatable and unstoppable but of course, more than one person, is more powerful than one. So, Murphy's kickass and this attitude, got him into Trouble because, he feels really sure that he will win in the end but, karma is a bitch and punishes him everytime he feels overpowered, underestimating his opponents. ----------------------------------- HOB888 Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:11 pm ----------------------------------- From my point of view, i find enough similarities between this torture scene and the torture scene from the first movie. Yes, the obvious ones, of course (eg. Right hand gets blown off on both scenes) but another thing comes in mind, Less obvious. I think that Murphy's overconfident and "i got this" attitude, got him in a lot of trouble. On the first movie, even though he is warned that the things are dangerous and the crime rates are high, he doesn't give a s*it. He is overconfident, maybe a bit arrogant and he thinks that he is unbeatable and unstoppable but of course, more than one person, is more powerful than one. So, Murphy's kickass and this attitude, got him into Trouble because, he feels really sure that he will win in the end but, karma is a bitch and punishes him everytime he feels overpowered, underestimating his opponents. ''Alex Murphy.Top of his class,devout Irish Catholic, family man.Everything in his profile indicates a fierce sense of duty.'' ----------------------------------- RoboLewis Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:45 pm ----------------------------------- Hi everyone! I’m new here, but I visit the site regularly because I’m a huge fan and I like to hear what the RoboExperts have to say! Murphy getting dismantled was devastating to me and it’s painful to watch. This poor guy has been through so much since being brought back to life as a cyborg. The scene made me wonder if it was just a coincidence that Irvin Kershner directed R2 and The Empire Strikes Back, and both films had a robot/cyborg getting dismantled? ----------------------------------- NOF Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:01 pm ----------------------------------- And the hero losing a hand. ----------------------------------- RoboLewis Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:06 pm ----------------------------------- Yes, that's right! Both of them lost a right hand too. ----------------------------------- Robomania Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:50 pm ----------------------------------- I don't like watching Robo getting dismantled in R2 or Murphy being shot to death in the first movie, pretty brutal, I mean there's being shot which you see in movies a lot and then there is being shot up over in your limbs like that. Poor guy ----------------------------------- RoboLewis Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:23 pm ----------------------------------- Did the news media report on Murphy being dismantled? With the cops on strike and their best guy practically destroyed, the crime in the city would’ve gotten even more out of control. ----------------------------------- Stan The Man Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:43 am ----------------------------------- Did the news media report on Murphy being dismantled? With the cops on strike and their best guy practically destroyed, the crime in the city would’ve gotten even more out of control. I'm almost certain it did get reported, too big a thing to not. And I daresay with a direct byline by OCP. The city falling into more chaos suited their purposes despite the obvious negative publicity and public image. This was all discussed pretty much verbatim between Old Man and Johnson in R2. ----------------------------------- NOF Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:44 pm ----------------------------------- Did the news media report on Murphy being dismantled? With the cops on strike and their best guy practically destroyed, the crime in the city would’ve gotten even more out of control. From the Marvel adaptation: http://i.imgur.com/iYuWu.jpg ----------------------------------- RoboLewis Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:29 pm ----------------------------------- The script for Robocop 2 had Cain (Kong) remove Murphy’s face. I have know idea what he would do with it; maybe tack it on a wall. But how would they have replaced his face? Give him a different one and he would look like Burke in R3. Or were there molds of his face in case of severe damage? ----------------------------------- artuditu Mon Nov 07, 2022 6:12 pm ----------------------------------- The script for Robocop 2 had Cain (Kong) remove Murphy’s face. I have know idea what he would do with it; maybe tack it on a wall. But how would they have replaced his face? Give him a different one and he would look like Burke in R3. Or were there molds of his face in case of severe damage? The whole what if Robo lost his face in battle was a favorite thought experiment of mine growing up. I always favored the idea that he had a T800-like metal bulletproof skull behind the flesh, giving to his face (mouth) purely an aesthetical purpose (same idea behind keeping the human hand in the remake). In that case, the logical answer is that the OCP tech team would just have some fake face replacements ready in case he lost the original one. Otherwise, having a human skull and the mouth area exposed would have been a fatal flaw in the design. But anyway, there is so many unknowns in the actual technology inside Robo, it's obviously just pure fan speculation. ----------------------------------- NukeLord Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:13 pm ----------------------------------- The script for Robocop 2 had Cain (Kong) remove Murphy’s face. I have know idea what he would do with it; maybe tack it on a wall. But how would they have replaced his face? Give him a different one and he would look like Burke in R3. Or were there molds of his face in case of severe damage? The whole idea of what would happen if Robo lost his face in battle was a favorite thought experiment of mine growing up. I always favored the idea that he had a T800-like metal bulletproof skull behind the flesh, giving to his face (mouth) purely an aesthetical purpose (same idea behind keeping the human hand in the remake). In that case, the logical answer is that the OCP tech team would just have some fake face replacements ready in case he lost the original one. Otherwise, having a human skull and the mouth area exposed would have been a fatal flaw in the design. But anyway, there is so many unknowns in the actual technology inside Robo, it's obviously just pure fan speculation. I think it's generally accepted that it's a fake face over a metal skull. I know Verhoeven has said this. (I'm not sure where to find a link/reference to that but I 100% remember him saying it) A flesh annd bone skull would offer no protection whatsoever. ----------------------------------- tsimisde Thu Nov 10, 2022 8:35 pm ----------------------------------- Well, i saw a bit of the movie recently, especially until the part until Robo is fixed and has his directives installed. Well, all i have to say about the dismantling scene, is that, I don't think there is a plot hole nowhere to be found. It is simple as that. Cain and his gang, considering the cop strike, they wanted to frighten the cops so what they did? They destroyed their best defender, in order to show that they are dangerous and people should be afraid of them, no one could stop them, even the mighty Robocop so, they were arrogant at the highest degree possible so, this was the sole purpose for doing that. If they just killed Robo, their message, wouldn't be sent so, they wanted to SHOW what they could do, this was the appropriate way to do it. But, don't forget the fact that, I don't know if a drug fueled had such a high spirited plan in his mind so, maybe because he was a sadistic man, he just wanted to see the suffering and agony in other people, so, that's why he did the "surgery" on the other cop, not this time to send a message, just for thrill but, karma is a bitch so, he suffered also, he had his mind on another body, of course he could do much worse because, even if he had his mind functional, he lost completely his human touch, the touch he never had in the first place. Another point i want to mention, is that somehow, Cain and his gang, clearly knew how to take down Robo and i wonder how they got the information they needed. Dont forget the fact that while you mentioned the more technological approach on why Robo was outsmarted by a bunch of thugs, i think we forgot the most basic. If you remember, while Robo gets into the place, he sees Virgin Mary and then, while he tries to attack Cain, Cain makes his religious speech so, i guess that, as Robo didn't shoot the kid previously, because of his related directive, maybe this is the main reason why he didn't do anything and just stood still, he maybe thought that, Cain is having a bit of kindness in him, because he had this religious mindset and that's why he didn't attacked him. Don't forget the fact that Murphy was a Catholic, as it was mentioned in the movie (I don't remember if that is mentioned before or after the dismantling incident) so, Cain knew he didn't had the chance to beat Robocop in other way so, he got the information he needed and he used them in a clever way, he cheated in other words. ----------------------------------- HOB888 Mon Nov 27, 2023 3:49 pm ----------------------------------- Another point i want to mention, is that somehow, Cain and his gang, clearly knew how to take down Robo and i wonder how they got the information they needed. . Cain and Angie visited Faxx as wealthy buyers but the scene was cut. ----------------------------------- HOB888 Tue Nov 28, 2023 12:35 pm ----------------------------------- Another point i want to mention, is that somehow, Cain and his gang, clearly knew how to take down Robo and i wonder how they got the information they needed. . Cain and Angie visited Faxx as wealthy buyers but the scene was cut. Ah, that would explain much. But did Faxx give it to them freely, sell it to them or did they swipe the info while she was otherwise occupied? In the script of the scene Cain says to Faxx that he has paid insiders who told him the technical infos on Robo. You can check it out in my signature blog .