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Archive

Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:33 pm


RoboCop 2: Corporate Wars - Script

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http://robocoparchive.com/forum/r2-cw1.jpg

For many years this was THE RoboCop holy grail. A mysterious script of a movie that never was. A true sequel to RoboCop. 
Now 28 years after being written it can finally be read and discussed by fans. It's a surreal moment to be sure.

This script is the first and only draft made and dates back to 1/1 1988. 
It is missing two pages, 48 and 101, but has the added bonus of featuring the notes of the writers on a lot of the pages. 
Some of the notes are more readable than others while some are hard or impossible to see. 

As with a lot of things on the archive this was a team effort and several archive members helped getting to where we are now. 
Lots of lots of paper copying and scanning occurred. 

While I was happy to have the script in my possession, a worry was what the writers would think about having their rough and unfinished script out in the public. 
Luckily Ed Neumeier gave us his blessing and OK'ed having the script on the site.


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Sin_Valor

Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:00 pm



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Trying to decipher the first note:

"I wonder if we need (any situation?) of how Robo goes back to his old duties, (w/o?) (loving cliched?) (**hlocks?)/clips from previous movies. I somehow feel we need to link the two. Some how explain what Robo's (doing?) (looks like "in"?) the street again."

The second note's very hard to read, but here's what I could make out:

"(great?) (b**k? could be "back" or "black") (d****) (a******) ("in" or "on"?) (could be an l-word or d-word) (the middle part is heavily obscured) to ("be" or "a"?) very strong (and?) expensive"

Great read so far.


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Archive

Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:07 pm



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Trying to decipher the first note:

This is what I deciphered it to:

PAGE 3 NOTES:
"I wonder if we need any explanation on how Robo came back to his old duties w/o (without) clichéd flashbacks/clips from the previous movie." 

"I somehow feel we need to link the two some how. Explain what Robo's doing on the streets again."


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Sin_Valor

Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:16 pm



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You're right, I think that does say "flashbacks/clips".

Here's what I got from the third note:

"Unclear how/if Robo fits into this scene of (****ava(i?)so(r?)d) (R/B?)(ileys?)"

-

Oh god, page 11  :shock: 

Well...here's the best I've got:

"great image"

"how did these two (find?) him, where has he been for 25 years"

"why would he be (out?) in the junk heeps"

"there is also a special opportunity here for a salesman character, sort of a 21st century junkyard owner who fills ("m/gon?" or "on", or "us on") Robo's history capabilities, this could add a humorous touch and also would solve my/any question, also who (***ctly? could be "exactly") they are ("buying" or "busy") this from (couldn't make out that word), this place seems empty"

"or at least have the computer have a voice..."

whew.

-

Page 13 note:

"again, how exactly does Robo fit in, and shouldn't Robo drive the story, (instead?) of the other way around?"

-

Page 14 note:

"unclear exactly what Robo's purpose is"

Okay I'm done deciphering notes for now.


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Stan The Man

Mon Mar 07, 2016 5:05 am



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Just downloaded it.. :D Will need to dedicate some free time to read it all proper but a great Robo-dream has been fulfilled! I've been looking forward to this for quite a while.. Many kudos and thanks to those involved in getting this gem available to us... :yessir:  

PS - I feel this topic merits being in the 'Featured Topics' forum, but that's me.


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RoboFan_93

Mon Mar 07, 2016 6:53 am



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I'll be going on the road today, so this will provide an excellent read!
I'd like to take the rest of this post to thank everyone involved in making this available for the rest of us and to Ed Neumeier himself for OKing it.


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Edd 209

Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:53 am



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As Stan said above, big thanks to all those involved in obtaining this, and I'm going to see if it can be my bedtime storybook for a few nights - 112 pages of Robo bring it on!


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Edd 209

Mon Mar 07, 2016 12:08 pm



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Let's boogaloo baby  :ohdear:

Hmm, that is very out there I must say.
It doesn't advance the character of Robocop/Murphy which I was hoping they would explore more, being the character they made.

For me it would be too far removed from R1.  I think I would miss Robo in Detroit in his Taurus ridding the city of crime.  At least Robo does say 'Drop it' - probably my favourite part of the script :robo1: 

It is an interesting idea waking Robo up many years later, a theme I would have hoped the remake would have taken to continue on from the original.   But this feels like any sci-fi.  Maybe interesting to see in another what could have been R2 comic book.

Glad I have had the chance to read it, thanks to Archive et al.


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Archive

Mon Mar 07, 2016 3:35 pm



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The script has some good, great and some really awful stuff in it. The writers weren't exaggerating when they call it a very rough draft.

The worst part for me is probably the robo-rap on the final pages. Sure it was 88 when the draft was written but that whole thing is b-movie terrible.

I both love and hate the 25 years later concept. It would have been different and made the movies stand apart like alien and aliens do, but it would have been a shame to loose al the characters from the first movie.


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artuditu

Mon Mar 07, 2016 5:31 pm



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Thanks a lot Archive for this! 

We should be benevolent with the screenplay, it is stated to be a first rough draft, also for a sequel, so we cannot judge it as a finished product at all.

Said that, I read the first 20 pages and no much was working there really. As we all were afraid of, Robo is destroyed in the very first scene without almost saying a word, it may have been a cool action sequence (very reminiscent of R2 first scene by the way), he shoots many bad guys, but as a story of character and dialogues nothing happens there, it's empty.

What happens after, until the page 20, is also kind of weak. Since 1 page of a screenplay averages 1 minute of film screentime, we are 20 minutes in the movie, and there is just no antagonists yet, no character development, we don't know exactly what the characters are going after by repairing Robo (a lot of dialogues that keep pushing forward their real motivations and purposes).

That first section of the film would have had troubles being scrutinized by producers, it needs a lot of rework, the 20 first minutes are vital to any movie, in particular an action fast-paced movie. Robo just appeared in the beginning but without showing any personality, and now we are just waiting for him to be reactivated, there is no flavor to what is happening meanwhile.

Also as we knew, this becomes a high sience-fiction movie, I think it tries to emulate the Blade Runner feel (not a surprise, Verhoeven also wanted that kind of world, but due to budget constraints had to bring the story more to the present). As a curiosity, the beginning with Robo "dying" and then the robotic wreck yard reminds me a lot of Alien 3 (which was posterior obviously).


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ChAnOoD

Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:17 pm



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I didnīt finished it, but it would be an interesting film to see. And Iīm not saying itīd be great. 

I mean, the pace is way too much different than the first movie. Itīs more a movie about people talking and a cyborg using his weapon at some points. At least itīs like that for the moment. But Iīd find it interesting at the same time. I wonder how people would react to it.

Some people told us the lenght of the Roboviolence in the first film, not too long, but the whole movie goes fast and seems it has more action pieces than actual minutes of blood and bullets. Here the pacing is slow. Maybe they were trying to develop that futuristic world (which reminds me the one of Total Recall at times, with the driving droids).

Rough draft, indeed. Curious to see how it ends, so I think I shold stop reading your comments in this topic 

 :b


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Edd 209

Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:17 pm



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Its takes about half way through the script for the plot to thicken out and to understand how the characters are connected,  which would have worked really well and interesting in their own merit, but I felt as though Robo was a second character just along for the ride with no real forefront in the movie.

I must say though they picked out the best bits to use in the series pilot 'the future of law enforcement" which I really enjoy watching.  I think they understood how to write Neurobrain\Diana into the story and make Robo the main star.


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Stan The Man

Tue Mar 08, 2016 12:16 am



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I must say though they picked out the best bits to use in the series pilot 'the future of law enforcement" which I really enjoy watching.  I think they understood how to write Neurobrain\Diana into the story and make Robo the main star.

Makes sense. I always consider "The Future Of Law Enforcement" as the most 'finalized' take we would ever get on the Corporate Wars story. This is exemplified in my old article but I think it shows a re-working of it would have made for a pretty good film. Make it a bit darker and more adult and intense, give it more of a 'Verhoeven experience' treatment and that plus the story it had might have made for a nice R2, better than what we got (nothing against Miller's work, mind you, but like Verhoeven I do think many of the original sequel ideas were/are superior to what we ended up with).

Anyway, I have read a few pages, should really read more to get a better idea but I appreciate reading others' insight into it anyway right now. 

There certainly appears to be some real wonky and off-kilter stuff for sure.. but as said, it is a rough draft. Again, with some polishing for better pacing and emphasis on Robo it might have been something at least interesting, if not actually quite good. I think the 'duck out of water' aspect is a good one to go with for a Robo story (Mortal Coils used it pretty well to an extent IIRC) and the future environment might have done for good satire and observations (Back To The Future II did it a bit and it worked, Blade Runner did also to a degree).

It not really hitting anything in the first while of it is a problem.. I don't mind some buildup but you can't overdo it or people will lose interest and understanding and you're in trouble. Reminds me of Escape From New York - I appreciate the cut bank robbery sequence as a bit of extra buildup now but I agree with it being cut from the finished film as it only drags things out and does so in a confusing manner - nothing makes sense until after the sequence itself. Seems to be a similar kind of thing here after Robo is blown up (which I can imagine in my head as being an amazing action-intro sequence).

I do think dropping all those established elements - OCP, Lewis, Reed, etc - is very risky. It can be done if you have near or equally good things to replace that with, but even so it's tough. In that regard I prefer the Series Pilot, as it retained the characters and that 'closer' near-future setting that the original had. 

What Chanood said about "people talking and a cyborg using his weapon at some points" reminds me a bit of the remake.. not a good thing. Hopefully that isn't too much of it, though it rather seems it. I remember the retrospective on the site about essentially making Robo a pawn in other bigger schemes and pieces and being reminded of that heavily when I first saw the remake. Bah. But again, need to read more for myself of course. I think we can all agree this is a wonderful and fascinating discovery and adventure for all of us. :)


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RoboFan_93

Tue Mar 08, 2016 5:59 pm



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The script was... an interesting read. Not a particularly good one, but acceptable as a first rough draft.

It has a lot of problems though. One of those is that Robo is barely in it. He's not the main character, but more of a tool for the story. His humanity is pretty much gone and his weapon upgrades remind me of the Gunarm and Alpha Commando quite a bit.
Speaking of Alpha Commando, it definitely seems to carry some of Corporate Wars' spirit. The action scenes in the script are very cartoonish, especially the fight against the two Destructobots. It sounds like something that'd be really neat to watch, but not necessarily something I'd expect to see in a RoboCop movie.
Visually, I had some trouble imagining it. I couldn't get a constant feel of the way it would've looked - derelict and run-down or somewhat of a Delta City surrounded by ghettos and ruins? The only thing I thought was that Robo's design would definitely look archaic when compared to the rest. Which might have been the point of it, to some extent.
The potential of NeuroBrain and her relationship with Murphy is unexplored, but fortunately, they fixed that when The Series came along.

Overall, it's a script that doesn't really need RoboCop in it. But heck, I love the idea of Bixby Snider as president. You could even say that I'd buy that for a dollar.


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Mephisto

Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:57 pm



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Interesting read, glad it got posted.

Yes folks, I still lurk from time to time. I never forgot this place, spent too many years on it to do that.


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RoboFan_93

Tue Mar 08, 2016 7:39 pm



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Yes folks, I still lurk from time to time. I never forgot this place, spent too many years on it to do that.

Well now, this topic turns out to be full of pleasant surprises!


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RoboHell

Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:23 pm



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Yes folks, I still lurk from time to time. I never forgot this place, spent too many years on it to do that.

Well now, this topic turns out to be full of pleasant surprises!

Howdy Meph! hope you are doing well. 

This is definitely a rough draft, just wish they could of worked on it more...but so glad after all this time it found its way here!


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ChAnOoD

Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:55 pm



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I finished it. And I didnīt get it  :b 

I didnīt pay too much attention to every detail, and some quasi-futuristic words doesnīt help either, but I think it was a bizarre screenplay. I can see Ed giving a lot of homages to Blade Runner and Judge Dredd in this one. There are nods to Ridley Scottīs film (doesnīt shock me, as he wanted that feel on Robo1; even this script uses the word replicant in some pages), and RoboCop here talks more like Dredd than Murphy in the previous movie.

Thereīs something funny as well, and Iīd put SPOILER here if someone doesnīt want to know what it was, but Ed & Michael didnīt like Robo with a gunarm in RoboCop 3, but they added a flamethrower and a cannon on both Robohands.

 The worst part for me is probably the robo-rap on the final pages. Sure it was 88 when the draft was written but that whole thing is b-movie terrible.

Yeah, the overall look of the whole script is weird. Too much different tones and ideas in there. I think itīs not too bad, as it was a first draft and theyīd be toying with ideas, but it gets too far from anything we know from the character. Donīt know how the filming script could be, and itīd be interesting on how the audience would react from that film. 

Also, I think itīd be quite difficult to do a sequel from this film.


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Mephisto

Wed Mar 09, 2016 5:06 pm



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Even with it's flaws, I'd take the sequel we got over this anyday. Alot of this shit ended up being used in that Canadian Robo TV series anyway.


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Edd 209

Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:10 pm



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Also, I think itīd be quite difficult to do a sequel from this film.

Yeah that's what I thought too.  Where do you take Robo to after this?


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artuditu

Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:39 am



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Oh man, I know I said we couldn't judge this being a first draft, but what a huge disappointment... I can't see any potential in there, the concept is just poor from the beginning. I endorse what has been said here: lots of influence from Blade Runner and Judge Dredd, and Robo is a secondary element in the story. 

There is just no Murphy at all, the few times Robo appears he is dropping lines as if he was 100% a machine. No character, no motivations, goals or conflicts. All the human element of the first movie is gone, no place here for great acting, neither for the emotional poetry of Poledouris' music.

The main purpose of the writers seems to be the science fiction elements, the futuristic city, they dream of a huge budget, like Blade Runner and Total Recall had, but I don't see any story or characters to justify such an investment, they just were dreaming of how it would visually look, as if it contained everything they couldn't afford in the first movie.

As a fan I can only consider it a sort of curiosity, it has Robo in there, but it doesn't bring anything at all to the story and character we know, it just has no continuity, Robo is not the same and he barely speaks or does anything other than shooting bad guys. Yes, there are a few nods, TV spots and some corporate corruption and strifes, and that is the end of it, as if there were no other powerful themes in the original.

We like to criticize producers, but to be fair, if I was working at Orion at the time I would have been very worried to read this first draft. I wonder if Verhoeven read any of this. He would be obviously interested in the sexbots, but I can't imagine anything else.


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RoboPimp

Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:26 am



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This is a nice acquisition for the archive... I have perused the document and enjoyed the Roborap at the end... no wonder Orion turned down this script. :lol: I am not a huge fan of reading scripts though, so could someone write a synopsis? It doesn't have to be super long but I think many of us would benefit from it, and it could be added to the page about it so the casual visitor of the archive can get the gist without reading the whole thing. Anyway, if someone could do this that would be great... if not I'll probably wind up doing it myself at some point.


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ChAnOoD

Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:40 pm



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There is just no Murphy at all, the few times Robo appears he is dropping lines as if he was 100% a machine. 

Well, Ed said that he doesnīt get how the rest of the RoboCop saga tried to humanized Murphy, and called him "Robo" even at the end of the first script. That would be a reason why he acts like that here.

 I wonder if Verhoeven read any of this. He would be obviously interested in the sexbots, but I can't imagine anything else.

 :b

To me, itīs hard to imagine the action scenes here; there are too much robots on it. I wonder how Verhoeven could handle those scenes.


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artuditu

Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:53 pm



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There is just no Murphy at all, the few times Robo appears he is dropping lines as if he was 100% a machine. 

Well, Ed said that he doesnīt get how the rest of the RoboCop saga tried to humanized Murphy, and called him "Robo" even at the end of the first script. That would be a reason why he acts like that here.

Hmm, maybe it was Verhoeven's direction that stressed the reemerging of the human soul in the original, you can see in his many interviews how important was that theme for him, the music and visuals make some metaphysical poetry of it. For Verhoeven, in a capitalist world the human soul is the only thing that cannot be turned into a product and be traded for, Peter Weller even has talked of the deep meaning of hearing his name "Murphy" as a means to awaken his submerged consciousness. 

I might re-read the original screenplay with some questioning, maybe for Ed and Michael the humanity of Robo was something secondary, a robot with distant memories of being human, but not feeling human (or just a 5% or 10% human). At least that is the impression we get in this CW script.


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Pewero

Sat Mar 12, 2016 4:17 pm



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Thank you for the script!
Maybe, one day, we'll read the David Self's one for the reboot too. With Aronofsky involved and knowing his Batman, probably it features a very different RoboCop from what we have seen yet.


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ChAnOoD

Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:36 pm



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Thank you for the script!
Maybe, one day, we'll read the David Self's one for the reboot too. With Aronofsky involved and knowing his Batman, probably it features a very different RoboCop from what we have seen yet.

There was one of the drafts for RebootCop floating on the net. The one with Murphy being "killed" by thugs, Oldmanīs character testing robotics on monkeys and Murphy without an eye at the end. Donīt know if thatīs the one youīre talking about.


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Pewero

Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:32 pm



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No, that was written by Joshua Zetumer (that wrote the final movie too) with revisions by Nick Schenk. I was talking about the script written by David Self when the movie was scheduled for 2010, with Darren Aronofsky as director. In 2011 there were rumors about a comic adaptation of it, but nothing happened. It's a shame it didn't leak on the web, it could be a very good read.


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ChAnOoD

Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:43 pm



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No, that was written by Joshua Zetumer (that wrote the final movie too) with revisions by Nick Schenk. I was talking about the script written by David Self when the movie was scheduled for 2010, with Darren Aronofsky as director. In 2011 there were rumors about a comic adaptation of it, but nothing happened. It's a shame it didn't leak on the web, it could be a very good read.

I wonder if that would save RebootCop from the flop it was.

Anyway, for this Corporate Wars script I think it could take all the fans from the first one by surprise. Way too much ahead of the "spirit" of the original, and the rest of the characters from that universe were important and charismatic to avoid them on this. Funny to see even at the begining, I assume short after the end of the first movie, thereīs no Lewis along RoboCop when he confronts that gang. Or her appearing when you see cops approaching him after the hit.


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Rick

Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:36 am



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Many thanks to all involved in getting this to us. It is greatly appreciated.

Having read it in one sitting last night I can certainly now see why Orion said that, as it currently was, was "unfilmable". It doesn't feature Robo that much and the setting and tone has changed enormously from the original, and this change would have been far too jarring for the audience. 

You can certainly see what elements were there that ended up getting used in the TV series, such as Robo being destroyed and offline for a while (though not 25 years!) NeuroBrain merging with Robo to fix him (or make him stronger as per the screenplay), the execution live on TV as entertainment etc.

It was interesting to read, but even if it was refined and polished up a bit more, I still think this would not have been regarded as a good sequel. Like Mephisto said, I would much prefer the RoboCop 2 we got in 1990 over this.


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Edd 209

Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:03 pm



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Well, Ed said that he doesnīt get how the rest of the RoboCop saga tried to humanized Murphy,...

Really? Where is that interview?

 wonder how Verhoeven could handle those scenes.

As I read the script I imagined Total Recall...  :shock: 



Maybe, one day, we'll read total reveal David Self's one for the reboot too. With Aronofsky involved and knowing his Batman, probably it features a very different RoboCop from what we have seen yet.

Is the David Self script available to read?  So many could-have-been scripts....


There was one of the drafts for RebootCop floating on the net. The one with Murphy being "killed" by thugs, Oldmanīs character testing robotics on monkeys and Murphy without an eye at the end. 

And is this script still on the web somewhere?


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Pewero

Tue Mar 15, 2016 5:00 pm



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The script by David Self isn't on the web, sadly. It's one of those impossible to find scripts; maybe only him, Aronofsky and someone at MGM may have it. The other one, instead, it's easy to find searching with Google. It's on Wikileaks too.


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ChAnOoD

Tue Mar 15, 2016 8:28 pm



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 Really? Where is that interview? 

I think it was included on that UK RoboCop Special magazine, and maybe in the coffee table book as well.

 As I read the script I imagined Total Recall...  :shock: 

It happens to me at some quiet scenes. But I wonder how itīd handle the robot fights. Those robots and lasers should be more advanced that good old 209.

 Is the David Self script available to read?  So many could-have-been scripts.... 

Doubt it.

And is this script still on the web somewhere?

I think someone here found it, not sure. But it was easy to find. And, while it has the same stupid cliches from RebootCop, they tried to make it more "mature". Still, writing the first RoboCop model as a "stupid 80īs toy" doesnīt make us believe the writer loved the character.


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artuditu

Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:36 am



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I wonder how itīd handle the robot fights. Those robots and lasers should be more advanced that good old 209.

I also had some troubles picturing those scenes, the screenplay is so heavy in science fiction elements, such a big departure from the original look. Yet, from a difficulty point of view, I don't think it would be more of a challenge than Robo vs Cain, that looked glorious then, and it is literally a robot wrestling match (probably ridiculous in a written form)! Phil Tippett would have figured it out.


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BIONICS BOB

Thu Mar 17, 2016 2:56 am



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I would like to thank Archive and everyone involved in bringing this script to the archive!! Like all of you, I've been waiting  a long time to read this.

Cheers!


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JimWantsAliens

Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:07 pm



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OH MY GOOD GOD! BATMAN V SUPERMAN CAN WAIT!! I'M READING THIS TONIGHT!!!!

THANK YOU Archive!!! :-)


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Edd 209

Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:24 pm



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OH MY GOOD GOD! BATMAN V SUPERMAN CAN WAIT!! I'M READING THIS TONIGHT!!!!

THANK YOU Archive!!! :-)

Wait a sec... There's a batman v superman film? 

Definitely prefer Robo v sexbot - dawn of something really different...


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Judge Black

Sat Apr 09, 2016 2:28 pm



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In the rush to write the screenplay it's clear they were willing to take more ideas and material straight from Howard Chaykin's comic American Flagg and 2000AD's Judge Dredd. Some of which are legally contentious if they'd remained in the same state.

The housing blocks in American Flagg are called Plex-Malls and are a combination of apartments and shopping-mall built to house the middle-class and the elite while the underclass live outside. Cities are basically run from the Plex-Malls - in Corporate Wars they're called Plexes. 

The plot in Corporate Wars - as in RoboCop - is also very similar to Flagg in that corporations are running or trying to run the Presidency/administration. The topographic set-up is like Judge Dredd's Cursed Earth with the Plex being a walled-off city with a wasteland outside - also the democrat/political terrorist plot.

RoboCop has a program installed - Plex Justice 5000 - that makes him effectively a one-man judge, jury and executioner capable of applying instant street justice like the academy conditioned Judges in Judge Dredd - "PlexJury finds you guilty as charged".


However, given time and development, it still would've made a better film than RoboCop 2 once the issues of story and RoboCop's character/motivations had been ironed out. I much prefer that they were willing to push the concept beyond the first film and not make a condervative sequel - the last thing I'd want for a RoboCop film would be a predictable follow-up in the same setting as the first. It's the type of thing Verhoeven would've relished and it's a pity it didn't happen. I could see Verhoeven taking this script now and making a sequel from it. It would certainly work given its 25 years later setting that follows the original.


The elements that were taken from Corporate Wars to develop the TV series pilot - The Future of Law Enforcement - are the weakest parts of the script so I wouldn't call it a genuine adaptation of the unmade RoboCop sequel.


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ChAnOoD

Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:29 pm



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I could see Joe Dreddīs elements in RoboCop, as Neumeier was aware of 2000AD at the time, but I didnīt think about Chaykinīs work. I have to re-read American Flagg again, for sure. Anyway, doesnīt surprise anyone: Chaykinīs stories are filled with big chunks of black humour and satire.


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Judge Black

Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:21 pm



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I could see Joe Dreddīs elements in RoboCop, as Neumeier was aware of 2000AD at the time, but I didnīt think about Chaykinīs work. I have to re-read American Flagg again, for sure. Anyway, doesnīt surprise anyone: Chaykinīs stories are filled with big chunks of black humour and satire.


You can see the influence of Flagg on RoboCop especially in Chaykin's constant use of news-broadcasts and adverts to inform the story and Flagg gets a robot cop as a partner.



Chaykin is mentioned in the thanks list at the end of RoboCop. He was hired to design RoboCop's car - his design was never used:

https://books.google.ie/books?id=5OVZ8cw5liAC&pg=PA106&lpg=PA106&dq=howard+chaykin+judge+dredd&source=bl&ots=rUA-PzbRNe&sig=GSzGc3my4W1FoK4G0pra0l5CYBg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwij1vmPyYTMAhVDgQ8KHe7WDMMQ6AEIOzAL#v=onepage&q=howard%20chaykin%20judge%20dredd&f=false


I could see Joe Dreddīs elements in RoboCop, as Neumeier was aware of 2000AD at the time

Chaykin also pitched and wrote an early treatment of Judge Dredd when it was being developed by Charles Lipppincott in the 1980s. It was around this time that Ed Neumeier was also trying to pitch his own version of a Dredd film to the studios against Charles Lippincott - who was the actual rights holder - in the hope of convincing a studio to buy-out Lippincott's option. It didn't work out so he went on to make RoboCop.

It was a bit of a bone of contention when RoboCop was released as the Lippincott camp felt many of Dredd's concepts were taken for RoboCop and Lippincott's Producer Ed Pressman wanted to sue them but Jon Davison - RoboCop Producer - was a friend of Lippincott's and he didn't want to sue. Davison said to Lippincott and his assistant Susan Nicoletti after a screening of RoboCop, "It's Judge Dredd isn't it?"


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ChAnOoD

Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:51 pm



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It was around this time that Ed Neumeier was also trying to pitch his own version of a Dredd film to the studios against Charles Lippincott 

So, The Series technicial was named after him. Interesting.


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Judge Black

Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:32 pm



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It was around this time that Ed Neumeier was also trying to pitch his own version of a Dredd film to the studios against Charles Lippincott 

So, The Series technicial was named after him. Interesting.


Yeah - probably an inside joke.


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RoboWags

Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:44 am



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Chaykin is mentioned in the thanks list at the end of RoboCop. He was hired to design RoboCop's car - his design was never used:

https://books.google.ie/books?id=5OVZ8cw5liAC&pg=PA106&lpg=PA106&dq=howard+chaykin+judge+dredd&source=bl&ots=rUA-PzbRNe&sig=GSzGc3my4W1FoK4G0pra0l5CYBg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwij1vmPyYTMAhVDgQ8KHe7WDMMQ6AEIOzAL#v=onepage&q=howard%20chaykin%20judge%20dredd&f=false
lol Chaykin always sounds so pissed off when asked about RoboCop...

Its an interesting read.  I can't say that it would have made for a good movie necessarily but I'm sure it would've been better than Robo 3  :lol:


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Archive

Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:31 pm



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Interesting new quote from verhoeven from this link:


VERHOEVEN: "Its interesting, I just heard that they want towhen I did Robocop they immediately wanted to do a sequel the next year. This was Orion who went bankrupt, but thats ok. So I was interested. In the United States they make sequels. I get it. So myself and Michael Miner started working on ideas. We were really thinking about it because I feel a sequel has to go further. I think one of the best sequels is Star Wars 2, probably. That is a sequel thats good. Normally they arent good because its so difficult to find that inspiration. 

So I really wanted to take some time and develop something that deserved to exist and was different. But Orion didnt want to wait, so they used other people. But I just heard that MGM was thinking of picking up the ideas that we were working on in 87 (Laughs). I dont know if theyll do it, but they are talking about it."


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POCOBOR

Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:04 pm



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Whoa!  This was unexpected.  I dare not get my hopes too high considering the way MGM have treated the character the last few years but just the thought is definitely exciting.   If MGM could follow the example of Orion from back in the day and hire a director/writer team with a unique vision and fuck off the set until it's all said and done maybe something like this could be great.  As much as I disliked about the remake I can't help but think that Padilha had a much different movie in mind when he was hired.   To me, everything after the that body horror reveal scene seems like someone else's movie.   Like the studio took over after that.   

Oh well, this certainly gives us a little bit to chew on for a while along with RoboDoc and the inevitable boost in recognition with the 30th anniversary coming up.   Great find, Archive!


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Archive

Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:16 pm



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The ideas from 87 that Verhoeven talk about is of course "Corporate Wars" as we all know.

so we have to ask ourself the question.

Is it possible that releasing the script here and it being out there on the net caught MGM's attention? That they read the script and now see potential in it? Ancient RoboCop theorists say YES!


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artuditu

Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:32 pm



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It would be too much of a coincidence. But how would Verhoeven learn about it? Did MGM approach him? He says "I just heard" as if it was a word of mouth rumor, but being himself now so far (in time and space) from Hollywood, it's weird he got to hear it. 

Anyway, we know how these things work, MGM could have just had a quick look at CW script, made a couple of calls to screenwriters to take a look at it and give feedback, and biggest chance is they won't do anything else with it. But at least it may be a hint they are still figuring out ways to keep the franchise alive, which is normal, it's a property. 

Yet, fresh news is blockbusters lost money this summer, first serious signal saturation of franchises and reboots? More reasons for Sony to be afraid to risk anything with Robo. Unless they came to the conclusion Robo should not have a blockbuster budget to begin with, but CW is high sci-fi which would need a lot of money...

Again, a very interesting thing about Verhoeven's interview is his view on the remake: "they seem to think that the lightness of say Total Recall and Robocop is a hindrance. So they take these somewhat absurd stories and make them much too serious. I think that is a mistake. Especially in Robocop when he awakens they gave him the same brain. Hes a horribly injured and amputated victim, which is horrifying and tragic from the very beginning."


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ChAnOoD

Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:31 pm



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It would be too much of a coincidence. But how would Verhoeven learn about it? Did MGM approach him? He says "I just heard" as if it was a word of mouth rumor, but being himself now so far (in time and space) from Hollywood, it's weird he got to hear it. 

He usually hangs out with Ed Neumeier, and he works for Sony. Also, it has a mention on RebootCop, so maybe heīd be the missing link.

Playing it straight without any humour is a problem and not an improvement

Amen to that.

Iīm interesting on watching "Elle", but not sure if itīll have a big distribution in Spain. As for "Corporate Wars", if they forget about RebootCop and let the original guys do another "reboot" connecting with the original, yes. If not, I think itīd be better to leave it alone.

What if MGM tried to do something with the character one more time and they announce some interesting news for the 30th anniversary? Would be cool, if done well.


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POCOBOR

Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:44 pm



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In my fantasy world mind,  every time Neumeier and Verhoeven get together for these brunches and meet ups they have, they're honing the perfect RoboCop sequel.   Until I know otherwise that's what I'll continue to imagine.


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Stan The Man

Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:07 pm



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In my fantasy world mind,  every time Neumeier and Verhoeven get together for these brunches and meet ups they have, they're honing the perfect RoboCop sequel.   Until I know otherwise that's what I'll continue to imagine.

Same here, though I think artu said it that it's just too good to really believe something will come of it really. But who knows? 

That said, great article. Verhoeven has hit the nail on the head on it all, as he always has. Especially on the remake, that omitting that lightness and going too serious is a problem, as artu quoted. The Empire Strikes Back was a good pick for his point about a sequel going further. "If I like it, I say, fuck it. " God, I love this man. 

I still enjoy the Corporate Wars concept, and always believed it would be a great route for a reboot. It might work as a RemakeCop sequel, but even then, bah. Much as I want to like parts of R2014 they screwed the pooch and it's hard justifying salvaging it.


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Judge Black

Tue Sep 13, 2016 9:37 pm



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 If MGM could follow the example of Orion from back in the day and hire a director/writer team with a unique vision and fuck off the set until it's all said and done maybe something like this could be great.

Neumeier & Verhoeven's vision not unique enough? 

No one else seems capable of surmounting it.

It worked for George Miller and Fury Road (Lynch & Frost on Twin Peaks is next up) so I'd rather see the originals get the first offer of a second chance at their Corprate Wars ideas before anyone else.


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WeKilledYou

Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:34 am



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What a great read, even though it was short overall. I would love to hear Paul talk about these topics and more in greater detail.

Building off of what Stan said, I absolutely love the way his mind works and registers information. Not only did he make his point when using ESB as his example, but I love that he simply refers to the movie as Star Wars 2.


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POCOBOR

Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:44 am



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 If MGM could follow the example of Orion from back in the day and hire a director/writer team with a unique vision and fuck off the set until it's all said and done maybe something like this could be great.

Neumeier & Verhoeven's vision not unique enough? 

No one else seems capable of surmounting it.

It worked for George Miller and Fury Road (Lynch & Frost on Twin Peaks is next up) so I'd rather see the originals get the first offer of a second chance at their Corprate Wars ideas before anyone else.

The only reason I didn't mention Ed and Paul is because I assume they wouldn't be interested or at least Paul wouldn't since in the interview with Collider he laughed at the thought of MGM using ideas from Corporate Wars to make another movie.  Not ruling it out and OF COURSE they'd be the ideal team to helm another RoboCop movie, that goes without saying, right?  Hence why I mentioned in another post here that the two of them reteaming for RoboCop is a fantasy of mine.


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Judge Black

Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:48 pm



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With the corporate Trump-bot in power, now more than ever is the ideal time to do a proper - satirical - version of The Corporate Wars, RoboCop sequel.

So-called "liberal" Hollywood should be jumping at the chance to fund it.


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Judge Black

Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:50 pm



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With the corporate Trump-bot in power, now more than ever is the ideal time to do a proper - satirical - version of The Corporate Wars, RoboCop sequel.

So-called "liberal" Hollywood should be jumping at the chance to fund it.


Looks like my idea came true.


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NukeLord

Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:14 pm



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With the corporate Trump-bot in power, now more than ever is the ideal time to do a proper - satirical - version of The Corporate Wars, RoboCop sequel.

So-called "liberal" Hollywood should be jumping at the chance to fund it.


Looks like my idea came true.

Nice one Judge! :)

Something tells me it won't be Bixby Snyder as President. Though I wouldn't be surprised if it is an over-the-top fascist, sexist, billionaire Detroit Mayor who was a reality TV star in the mould of Trump. I don't see where a President fits into the city of Detroit. Though that's just my hunch.


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Archive

Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:31 pm



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Having a parody trump character seems too obvious i think. Every comedian and every show on TV has made fun of trump in one way or another and assuming "RoboCop Returns" is released in 2020 the whole thing is just gonna feel extremely old and done. 

I also hope they spin the satire in another way and don't go the social media parody angle. It's been done so many times.


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RoboPimp

Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:33 am



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Having a parody trump character seems too obvious i think. Every comedian and every show on TV has made fun of trump in one way or another and assuming "RoboCop Returns" is released in 2020 the whole thing is just gonna feel extremely old and done. 

I also hope they spin the satire in another way and don't go the social media parody angle. It's been done so many times.

This. All this. The only thing that would do is make the film feel really dated. Maybe if it had come out a year ago it would seem fresh, but by the time it hits theaters it will just feel lazy as it has already been done to death. I prefer they go for a 'timeless feel' as opposed to 'instantly dated'.


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Judge Black

Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:21 pm



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Having a parody trump character seems too obvious i think. Every comedian and every show on TV has made fun of trump in one way or another and assuming "RoboCop Returns" is released in 2020 the whole thing is just gonna feel extremely old and done. 

I also hope they spin the satire in another way and don't go the social media parody angle. It's been done so many times.

This. All this. The only thing that would do is make the film feel really dated. Maybe if it had come out a year ago it would seem fresh, but by the time it hits theaters it will just feel lazy as it has already been done to death. I prefer they go for a 'timeless feel' as opposed to 'instantly dated'.



It depends on how they approach it. Yes, it wouldn't work if they had a central character doing a straight-up Trump impression, but Bixby Snyder has never been that and was only a background persona in The Corporate Wars script that added texture, much like how he was in the original film.

RoboCop was as much about the 1980s; it reflected, but also extrapolated the era into future. It hasn't dated because very little, sadly, has changed.


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Victorboris1

Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:57 pm



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Having a parody trump character seems too obvious i think. Every comedian and every show on TV has made fun of trump in one way or another and assuming "RoboCop Returns" is released in 2020 the whole thing is just gonna feel extremely old and done. 

I also hope they spin the satire in another way and don't go the social media parody angle. It's been done so many times.

I agree, the Trump parody has been done to death.


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OcpCommunications

Thu Dec 19, 2019 6:04 am



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I just finished reading this for the first time and I came away from it thinking it just was not that efficient or that great of a script as a whole. The introduction with blasting RoboCop to pieces and leaving him for dead for 25 years is ballsy but it is not something I personally would have wanted from a sequel. It gives me PTSD flashbacks to the beginning of Alien 3 and I absolutely hate that movie. Plus it seems like he was blown up far too easily. 

Also, the script has no mention at all of Lewis or Reed. Which are two characters that fans wanted to see more of. Some of the satire here is fun, the social commentary about the middle class living in shopping malls and the lower class living on the outskirts of society was intriguing. I didn't feel the political aspect of the script clicked that well though. Especially Flicker. 

And worst of all, RoboCop here is transformed into a Judge Dredd knock off complete with repprogramming that makes him even read perps their rights the exact same way as Dredd does in the comics. I know Ed and Michael were huge fans of Dredd but that doesn't mean RoboCop needs to literally be Judge Dredd. The dialogue as a whole was quite weak throughout as well. And I didn't get the whole RoboCop falling in love with a brain thing. That just did not work at all. 

It just lacked far too much for me. It lacked the emotional impact, the story was not particularly engaging, and RoboCop is barely in the story and does not seem to do a whole lot either. A mish-mash of interesting ideas but nothing coherent enough for a feature film. And even with a rewrite, I still think it has too many crippling problems that it would simply not have worked. It was too strange and if it was to be brought to the screen it would have had to essentially be re-written from scratch.


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NOF

Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:33 pm



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Re-read this the other day after a conversation with friends.

Although I acknowledge it's a first draft, I can't deny that this script is utter shite. In a way it feels like it was written by people who had seen the first film, but didn't understand why it worked. The gritty "five minutes into the future" feel is tossed aside for a third rate Blade Runner/Judge Dredd/American Flagg pastiche. It makes me understand that one can create a successful character while also having the wrong idea as to why people love the character.

The political intrigue is nice and elaborate, but doesn't really go anywhere for me, unlike the original which drove the story as much as Robo's character arc. And the ending is a bad parody of the original's misleadingly "happy" ending.

Could Verhoeven have salvaged this? Maybe, but it would have needed extensive rewriting.


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Mindchamber

Sat Oct 02, 2021 8:20 pm



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thanks for bumping this post, I had no idea the draft was released,  I definitely need to take a peek at it..

Being completely biased here but I still Think my  fanfic Idea would be terribly fun :D


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artuditu

Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:12 am



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The memory I have from reading the screenplay back in the day is one of a big mess.

It just felt a sequel that did not want to be Robocop anymore, the main character was an excuse to take us to a new universe or franchise, as mentioned above something more Blade Runner / Judge Dredd / American Flagg, way more high sci-fi and dystopian, and with more convoluted neo-noir political intrigues.

It makes me think that once the writers assumed they would have less budget constraints they could think much bigger, they felt they needed to innovate and do something different, which of course is a brave thing to do, but in the process they threw away some simplicity and directness of the original that worked so well. Many times constraints and limitations increase creativity, but the creator tends to be greedy of bigger budgets and more freedom, forgetting that a lower budget can actually give you more freedom and force you to innovate in some cases.

Even if Orion are usually the bad guys in the history of Robo sequels, and knowing that they were just too impatient and wanted to rush the sequels to squeeze every golden egg from the goose, I still would have reacted similarly when presented with the Corporate Wars script.

For years when I kept hearing of a unproduced screenplay titled Corporate Wars I pictured in my mind something like the first Marvel comic issues, where another OCP-like competitor launches their own Robo model. 

So yes, I was disappointed when reading the CW screenplay but with time I guess I realized we didnât miss something great. All in all, Iâm happy with what we got with R2 and the Marvel comic books.

