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RoboJOF
Sgt-L4
 
Joined: 17 May 2015
Post Count: 306
Comment: Bitches, leave!
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  Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:48 pm |
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I enjoyed Prime Directives on a very superficial level. For me, it's more RoboCop stories to tell and while it pales in comparison to the original story or even the movie sequels, it continues the story with some elements that I enjoyed. Some of these same elements were envisioned in the comic series (vigilantes tearing up Detroit, RoboCop duplicates, connections to Murphy's family and RoboCop being a role model to troubled youth). They put a lot of time into developing the John Cable/Alex Murphy relationship, which was purposeful for Prime Directives primarily, but I could see it adding to the overarching RoboCop story if there were to be another movie/tv series/comic that was part of the existing RoboCop canon. Even though the RoboCable plot is a retread of RoboCop 2, at least it tried to create drama by having the John Cable be the bad guy for a while.
As far as a remake, I think that the edit idea is a good one. Imagine a condensed 2 hour version of Prime Directives much like how anime series are sometimes condensed into a movie and rereleased. It might actually improve the pacing of Prime Directives, which at times was an issue for me (especially in Meltdown and Crash and Burn).
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RoboPimp
PIMPY SUPREME
Joined: 10 Mar 2007
Post Count: 3124
Comment: "You dead wrong if ya think that pimpin' gon' die" - Snoop Dogg, P.I.M.P. (Remix)
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| Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:05 pm |
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| RoboJOF : | | Imagine a condensed 2 hour version of Prime Directives much like how anime series are sometimes condensed into a movie and rereleased. It might actually improve the pacing of Prime Directives, which at times was an issue for me. |
Well, I am imagining it and it still sounds too long to me.  Though there are moments I did genuinely enjoy in PD I feel like it is more a case of like 4 or 5 scenes that are only a few minutes long each, so it would not add up to much. I would be lying if I said I remember the finer points of the overarching plot, but I feel like there are a bunch of unimportant characters all woven together, so it might be hard to cut all the fat without losing main plot points. Really what I envision is the entire thing being cut down to basically Cable's story, you'd have to keep the boring cop drama back story but at least you could lead up to the RoboCable vs RoboCop battle as the climax of the story. That battle is really the only 'iconic' moment from the serious if you were generous enough to call it that. If you cut out everything that did not directly lead to or resolve that specific scene, then you might have something decent. That last sentence is also how I feel about Batman vs. Superman, coincidentally. Anyway, that would be a monumental task and the end result would still have Fletcher's baby body in the suit with 90s TV budget effects so I wonder if it would be worth it. Whoever dares take upon such a task would be a bolder man than I, but I would be first in line to watch it if someone ever did have the tolerance and discipline for such an undertaking.
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RoboJOF
Sgt-L4
Joined: 17 May 2015
Post Count: 306
Comment: Bitches, leave!
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| Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:03 am |
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I take it that you did not enjoy the Ann R. Key character, her band of technobabes, Kaydick (what a stupid name!) the digital wizard, and the bionic kid (That's just one of the side stories!). I think this particular subplot deviated the most from RoboCop stories (the host of OCP officials, scientists, etc. was at least connected to the RoboCop story and was a link to Cable). It sounds like the Dark Justice movie and parts of Crash and Burn were all that would be needed for your edit.
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RoboPimp
PIMPY SUPREME
Joined: 10 Mar 2007
Post Count: 3124
Comment: "You dead wrong if ya think that pimpin' gon' die" - Snoop Dogg, P.I.M.P. (Remix)
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| Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:51 am |
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| RoboJOF : | | I take it that you did not enjoy the Ann R. Key character, her band of technobabes, Kaydick (what a stupid name!) the digital wizard, and the bionic kid (That's just one of the side stories!). I think this particular subplot deviated the most from RoboCop stories (the host of OCP officials, scientists, etc. was at least connected to the RoboCop story and was a link to Cable). It sounds like the Dark Justice movie and parts of Crash and Burn were all that would be needed for your edit. |
Yeah, I would say that is a fair assessment. Those characters never made much of an impact on me and I can't say I would have remembered their names... except now I won't be able to forget Kaydick lmao... Anyway maybe that would be best, just to take the story of Dark Justice and Crash and Burn focused on the Cable stuff. Did any of those subplots or side characters really go anywhere? I remember James Murphy was tied into all that stuff, but also remember thinking James Murphy was probably the worst character of all. The question is more does RoboCop have any good scenes in those middle movies and plots? All I can really think of off the top of my head is when Robo disguises himself in the robes to walk through the crowd, and that wasn't memorable because it was good. But RoboCable is undeniably cool. Since PD has some small ties to The Series what if you played off that? Do an edit that turns it more into a double length epilogue episode to the Series. I think they used some Series footage so add in even more. Maybe a talented editor could replace shots of Page Fletcher's Robo with Richard Eden. Ah, if only...
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RoboJOF
Sgt-L4
Joined: 17 May 2015
Post Count: 306
Comment: Bitches, leave!
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| Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:15 pm |
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I think that you could probably tease out the RoboCable plot from all the rest. There are RoboCable creation scenes in Meltdown/Resurrection that would be necessary. There is also the scene where RoboCable saves RoboCop and the technorebels from the OCP strike force that was sent to kill RoboCop. The end of Crash and Burn might be tough, though. The only reason the heroes had to storm the OCP building was because they were trying to stop Kaydick and his takeover of the new OCP supercomputer system. RoboCable sacrifices himself at the end to save everyone when the computer system is about to go online. You might end up needing some of those characters from the OCP technology group in the condensed edit, at least to advance the plot.
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ChAnOoD
DC-L4
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Post Count: 2763
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:17 pm |
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| RoboPimp : | | Since PD has some small ties to The Series what if you played off that? Do an edit that turns it more into a double length epilogue episode to the Series. |
The PD Edit I was doing has that thing in mind. I find it ridiculous they choose a second unit shot of the RoboCruiser and not having other stuff from The Series on it to enhance the quality of the shots. Iīll have to check my discs, as I had some tech problems and Iīm not sure some of the background stuff I did is still here, but I used The Series on PD heavily to make things bigger as they are. Hell, I even did some more test yesterday and I found amazing how empty the OCP tower looks on Crash & Burn. You have some small halls, and ZERO decoration. Thatīs really weird, as you could put a few OCP stickers here and there, a cheap statue here, a bunch of plants there, and make it look like an actual building. Even the executive rooms feel empty and souless. And I found funny how some sets on sitcoms worked better than this. I meant, I was re-watching "30 Rock" and I paid attention to Jack Donnaghyīs room (Baldwinīs character room). Itīs the same basics: a few fake walls, but they put certificates in the walls, some wardrobe and even a small table for drinks and it looks like a real place.
Anyway, a few edits and stuff could make these boring sets more interesting. Just putting a window on some shots with a city background from The Series makes a big difference!
The sad thing about editing PD is the difference of quality between series. PD looks pretty neat for a DVD release, but The Seriesī quality is really low. I think for short, quick cuts it could work, but Iīm not sure if itīd look decent on a big screen (it looks OK on a computer screen).
Anyway, as a PD fan, I see itīs flaws, and I think if The Series crew would come back for this the final product would be more enjoyable for most of the fans.
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RoboPimp
PIMPY SUPREME
Joined: 10 Mar 2007
Post Count: 3124
Comment: "You dead wrong if ya think that pimpin' gon' die" - Snoop Dogg, P.I.M.P. (Remix)
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:28 pm |
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| ChAnOoD : | | I used The Series on PD heavily to make things bigger as they are. |
Say what you will about the Series, but you can't deny that they made the most of their resources to make their vision of Detroit feel full and alive. They may have only had say 5 police cruisers and a few other vehicles, but when they had scenes with big crowds they pulled out the whole fleet. And so those scenes with 20 extras and 5 vehicles feel even bigger because those shots are so full. They weren't afraid to slap an OCP sticker wherever they could, but you are right that they did not do the same in PD. Those scenes about all the office drama with James Murphy and the gang simply do not feel like RoboCop, not in the story or tone. Just having the OCP logo and some more details like that in the background would go a long way to making it feel more cohesive. So with that in mind, if you are going to edit in some clips from the Series, I would not worry too much about the difference in quality. What you are sacrificing in visual quality you are just trading for better quality of what is actually being shown. Sure, the Series undeniably looks like the 90s tv-budget show that it is, but I think the content of the show itself still holds up regardless.
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ChAnOoD
DC-L4
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Post Count: 2763
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| Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:34 am |
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| RoboPimp : | | What you are sacrificing in visual quality you are just trading for better quality of what is actually being shown. Sure, the Series undeniably looks like the 90s tv-budget show that it is, but I think the content of the show itself still holds up regardless. |
Itīs hard to work on it, since you spend a lot of time editing backgrounds and such for a second, but it improves the whole thing. The main idea is taking the 4 part miniseries and make a 90 minute movie out of it, so things would go faster and subplots would be erased (plus other things are modified). Sadly the audio mix doesnīt allow me to cut stuff the way Iīd like, but Iīm trying.
| RoboPimp : | | Say what you will about the Series, but you can't deny that they made the most of their resources to make their vision of Detroit feel full and alive. They may have only had say 5 police cruisers and a few other vehicles, but when they had scenes with big crowds they pulled out the whole fleet. And so those scenes with 20 extras and 5 vehicles feel even bigger because those shots are so full. |
Yup, I appreciate the stuff they did in 1994. Yes, itīs a happy, fun spirited and almost G rated version of the character, but working in some edits for fun I really dig what they did. The OCP building has people walking from one room to another, there are multiple decorations and felt busy. On PD I only recall a brief talk between Sarah Cable and Jimmy Murphy on Dark Justice, where you can spot a few people walking on the stairs. The rest of the series had the OCP building empty and most of their walls are plain walls without any stuff on them.
Plus, The Series used wide shots, which helps the narrative and let us see whatīs happening. Compare it to the first action scene on PD: They filmed it on the streets, bullets destroying the police cars, and even on that first shot they didnīt give any space to let the shot breathe. You only can see these cars and few cops. I know they were short on money, but they could use a few more extras and add some depth to it. And it gets confusing after that: the close up shots of fire after an explosion, without letting us see what happened after a detonation. One of the Bombz goes out, explodes himself, close up of fire, Roboīs feet close up. You donīt see when RoboCop appeared on scene.
That reminds me of how I reworked that scene using shots from "Trouble In Delta City". If I could find that (and itīs still intact, as I had troubles with the computer lately) I might post a link or some screencaps later.
EDIT: It seems a buncho of the work is gone, which is a shame. I found some quick cuts from the begining, and I did a comparison video out of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOYWD2D3Nuw&feature=youtu.be
Iīll have to see if Iīll rework some stuff and do something similar, or do something different. The aspect ratio of this fanedit of PD has a bigger resolution and itīs a bigger widescreen one, so I had empty spaces on the left and right. Sometimes I had to enhance backgrounds and such.
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Archive
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Joined: 17 Nov 2001
Post Count: 6533
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| Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:45 pm |
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Wow, that was really good. Very interesting mix and works surprisingly well. 
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RoboPimp
PIMPY SUPREME
Joined: 10 Mar 2007
Post Count: 3124
Comment: "You dead wrong if ya think that pimpin' gon' die" - Snoop Dogg, P.I.M.P. (Remix)
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| Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:04 pm |
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I watched that clip a few times and the difference is night and day. Clear, bright, but dynamic action from the Series vs the narrow, dark, and and bland visuals of PD. With the aspect ratio problem it may be too stark of difference for significant inclusions, but I would be interested to see if there are some solutions. For example, it would probably be pretty easy to darken those Series clips and sap the color out of them to make it match PD. But just like everything we have been talking about here, this does not really make me want to watch PD again or see it improved. It mostly just makes me want to watch the Series again and makes me appreciate what they did right there even more.
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ChAnOoD
DC-L4
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Post Count: 2763
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| Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:40 pm |
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| Archive : | | Wow, that was really good. Very interesting mix and works surprisingly well. |
The plan was having the first action set without the "No guns rule" on it, so I could put some more action on it. It was done so different, with some character introductions there (Ann R. Key and such). The idea was to retool the whole thing into something different, having the basic plot as basis. And the whole thing was an edit work trying to emulate what PD have: access to The Series to patch the thing.
| RoboPimp : | | With the aspect ratio problem it may be too stark of difference for significant inclusions, but I would be interested to see if there are some solutions. |
It seems some folders I had with renderings, which I used later for the finished parts, are gone. Next time Iīll have to make some copies on other devices. 
| RoboPimp : | | I watched that clip a few times and the difference is night and day. Clear, bright, but dynamic action from the Series vs the narrow, dark, and and bland visuals of PD. |
I want to do something with The Series as well, but Iīm not sure what to do. I had some ideas, and the one Iīd like to make would have Richard Eden shooting people instead of tagging them. The look of The Series is pretty gritty at some times and I think a darker version would work. But the TV aspect ratio bugs me, and putting the aspect of this clip would make the whole thing pixelated. Iīll try to make some tests with PDīs ratio to see if The Series would work as widescreen, but thereīs a problem: at most times the camera is moving, which is a pain in the ass to generate the rest of the enviroment 
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ChAnOoD
DC-L4
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Post Count: 2763
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:02 am |
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I posted in the latest days/weeks a few images of the PD Retelling I had on FB. I almost scrapped the whole thing, as a big bunch of the work done was damaged, but some of the files are still working. In the last weeks I took a look, and even worked on some new stuff. I think at this point, where I spent months trying to make this work, I should keep working on it.
Anyway, hereīs another video, with some samples, to show you how The Series footage could work on PD, making it look richer. These are random scenes, so you wonīt find any narrative structure except from the Dark Justice scene, which is similar to the one on the episode, but trying to make more sense of it. As I said in previous posts, the original had a Bombz getting out the building, he explodes and they edit a close up shot of flames, and RoboCop appears from nowhere. Here I tried to make it understandable, plus sticking to the original script (The guy from the Bombz explodes near the RoboCruiser, and RoboCop emerges from the flames). I had a different shot of Roboīs feet done, but it was damaged and lost, so I mixed the FX with the upscaled foot from The Future Of Law Enforcement.
Thereīs also a shot of one of the Bombz dying, and even an elevator/hall shot. In this last case, trying to make the OCP building bigger, and adding some people inside it.
At first I wanted to make a completely new OCP building, but I have zero experience doing 3D models, and Iīm not sure I could make a convincing one, so I took footage from The Series and readapted the shots into the aspect ratio from this project. But youīll have to wait to see that...
Hereīs the link of the vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbTRG78h-uU
Lemme know what do you think. There are still A LOT of work to do, but I find it cute to getting some scenes that make sense. Iīll still have to deal with dialogue, and I probably would need a voice or two in some segments (new OCP adds, and TV specials which donīt appear in the miniseries) and Iīm taking some ideas from previous drafts from PD, which means new stuff (and MUCH MORE WORK ).
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"PRIME DIRECTIVES": could it be remade?
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