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Three Robo Questions

 
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Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:10 pm Reply with quote

I'm sure these topics were discussed before, but "I'm Having Trouble" locating the right thread to answer my questions. First: Was the Old Man quizzing Murphy when he asked at the end of R1 "Nice shooting son, what's your name?" I'm sure he knew all about the candidate Bob Morton chose for his Robocop program and his background. So, I wonder if he and Johnson were surprised that he started to identify with his former self again. If they had decided to wiped his memory, OCP wouldn't have to deal with being sued when he started stalking his family. Second: Where were Robo, ED-209, and RoboCain manufactured? Was there an area on a lower level of the OCP Tower for these units to be constructed or a separate building nearby? I know in the 2014 version, he was created at a facility in China. Third: Why weren't the failed Robocop 2 prototypes given the same design as Murphy? RoboCable seems to be the only one that was made like Murphy and he didn't go crazy. I thought with the success of Bob Morton's original Robocop, they would've continued making others using the same process and body armor.



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Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:01 pm Reply with quote

Regarding your first question - The Old Man, while definitely being a bit more...caring, I guess, in the original film, he likely does not follow all the details of the projects. I doubt that he knew a whole lot about who RoboCop truly was. His knowledge is explored a bit more in the 94 series.

As for the second question - no real confirmation where the labs are, in the movies at least. They are likely either in the OCP HQ or closeby, as we get scenes of Faxx visiting Mr. Shenck's lab, where RoboCain was supposedly created, a few times.

And finally, when it comes to the designs - The Old Man mentions in RoboCop 2 that "things are getting a bit rough out there". Perhaps the original design was considered obsolete/not as durable. That being said, I've always had this problem with RoboCain's design that he does not even REMOTELY resemble something that would inspire trust in citizens - something that actually looks like a protector and not a killing machine. That doesn't mean I don't like the design, it's just that I'm not really buying it as something that was intended to be in law enforcement. My guess is the prototypes were made dorky for comedic purposes alone.
The movie addresses that it's not the design, but the mentality of the person that keeps the cyborgs alive. We can assume that Cable's strong convictions and sense of duty are what kept him from going insane.
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Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:49 am Reply with quote

RoboFan_93 :
I've always had this problem with RoboCain's design that he does not even REMOTELY resemble something that would inspire trust in citizens - something that actually looks like a protector and not a killing machine. That doesn't mean I don't like the design, it's just that I'm not really buying it as something that was intended to be in law enforcement.


To be fair, ED didn't exactly have a 'friendly' aesthetic to him, either. Of course in his case he was looked at for combat/military applications as well as being used for 'urban pacification'. I daresay there might have been a bit of this thought for RoboCain/RC2 as well.
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Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:48 am Reply with quote

Those are some interesting questions and I don't think there are definitive answers given in the movies. Here are my thoughts.

1) I tend to agree that the old man was quizzing him at the end there. I don't know if he knew who Murphy was specifically, but more to see how aware he was. He might not have directly overseen Robo's creation, but I think it is important to remember the scene with the ED-209 in the boardroom. I think the old man would have at least seen Robo at some point during his creation, even if it was before he was officially turned on. I think he was genuinely happy that Robo saved his life first and foremost, but considering how bad things went with the ED-209 in the same board room, I am sure he was at least a little concerned about Robo as his 'product' as well. RoboCop 2 does a great job of starting to dig into the legal ramifications of everything.

2) Robo was created in Detroit. Everything seems relatively local and nothing seems to suggest otherwise in the movies. There are various times in the comics that show it is indeed in Detroit.

3) If I had to guess why the prototypes in R2 looked different my guess would be because the original version costs too much. That seems to fit OCP's way of doing things, the original is suggested to be very expensive, I'm sure an exact figure is given somewhere but I'm not good at remembering numbers so maybe someone else does. Either way, they were looking to cut costs for mass production. The actual Cain version was kind of a result of 'mad science' gone to far, which is a big theme of the movie.

Also, in the Marvel comic run, issue #15, RoboCop encounters an OCP lab in Detroit that is making RoboCops using lobotomized bums. They are built using the original Robo design. They all get activated and start fighting Robo, the only thing they are missing are the helmets. That is one of my favorite issues and I am lucky enough to own the original art for a page from it, the page where Robo first encounters them and sees the dark legacy that lives in his shadow. Also, at the very end of the Marvel comics series there is a bad guy who shows up wearing modified armor based on Robo's design but way more badass tbh, I would say more but to say who that character is would be a major spoiler for the series, which I highly recommend every Robo fan read!




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Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:11 pm Reply with quote

Is it Clarence Boddicker's more evil twin brother?! Laughing Laughing
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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:52 am Reply with quote

PFML84 :
Is it Clarence Boddicker's more evil twin brother?! Laughing Laughing


Classic.




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Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:54 am Reply with quote

1) Nah, The Old Man almost certainly had no idea of who "Robocop" really was and let alone who Murphy was. Bob Mortimer and Johnson had more to do with that than the Old Man. Mortimer and Johnson were transferring candidates to Metro West.

2) Everything seems to suggest that Robocop and co were made in Detroit. Nothing out there to suggest they were out of town.

3) If you want dumb fanon idea for why Robocain looks so different from the other Robocop 2s I'll just throw out this one: Robocain might have been an ED-210 project. In a reversal of fortunes maybe because Security Concepts had screwed up twice and ED-209 was just such a screw up maybe someone in OCP just thought "ehhh just combine the two projects and see if it works". I've got no proof for this but this happens in some businesses.




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Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:36 pm Reply with quote

These are thought provoking questions! Great work digging deeper into the series!
1. I tend to agree with JohnBoy and RoboFan on this one. In the first movie, the Old Man seems to be more of a figurehead of the company (although he may have been its driving force at one time). Much in the same way everyone refers to him as The Old Man instead of by name, it seems like he is almost removed from the evil of the whole Dick Jones OCP megalomaniacal plot to control Detroit's wealth and population. The second film does a lot more to make him seem to be playing a bigger role in comic book style corporate domination of Detroit by loaning the city money knowing they would default on the loan and then taking over. He also was quick to through Dr. Faxx under the bus and save his own hide. This characterization is interesting because its just like Dick Jones was in the first movie. The fact that R1 characterized the Old Man as cold and unmoved by loss of life (Kenney) and motivated only by profits makes him more of a Scrooge character in my mind.
2. RoboCop was a prototype, so my guess is that he was built in-house. Possibly in the Detroit in the industrial sector and then assembled at OCP HQ. The remake has a facility in China, but that seems to be the place where a lot of tech is made, including the robot sentries. Even though OCP boasts military contracts and has products like the Cobra Assault Cannon in R1, they seem to be further along in their military contracting (maybe in a more true to life way) in the remake.
3. I think that the failed RoboCop 2 prototypes were zany because the movie was written by a comic book writer. Plus they couldn't be cool, they didn't have a major player like Cain inside them yet. It's no small wonder that when the process does work (by that I mean, it doesn't kill itself), it has the villain inside it. And he is badass! RoboCable probably looked like RoboCop because he is supposed to be heroic (even if he is more of an anti-hero) and the heroic form of RoboCop is already established. That and it would be very easy to repaint a suit that you already have in a different color. (Sorry for the cynical view on that last one. I tried to find a deeper meaning, but nothing was coming to mind.)




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Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 12:55 am Reply with quote

Three more questions: How many ED-209’s were made? Was the one that killed Kinney the same one that fought Robo and fell down the stairs? I remember the one in R3 that Niko reprogrammed.

The Old Man was really upset when Dick Jones’ robot killed Kinney, and I’m sure he saw all the damage that was caused after Ed and Robo fought. Why didn’t Jones get suspended or fired because of all the problems his robot caused?

Clarence worked for Dick and I’m sure he got paid well. Jones told Clarence to destroy Robocop and gave him the “major firepower” he needed. So why was he leaving after Joe got shot by Murphy? I mean, his job was to make sure this cyborg was blown away. He made sure Morton was blown up; It’s like I’m outta here and Emil and Leon can handle him!




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Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 2:45 am Reply with quote

RoboLewis :
Three more questions: How many ED-209’s were made? Was the one that killed Kinney the same one that fought Robo and fell down the stairs? I remember the one in R3 that Niko reprogrammed.

May have been the same one, maybe not. Anyway, probably at least several to a handful were ultimately made, perhaps even more. The MediaBreak in the second film indicates they were approved for deployment in several cities. Quite possible they got some military contract sales as well, as they had originally intended.

Quote:
The Old Man was really upset when Dick Jones’ robot killed Kinney, and I’m sure he saw all the damage that was caused after Ed and Robo fought. Why didn’t Jones get suspended or fired because of all the problems his robot caused?

Likely had an expensive employment contract that would have had to be bought out if they up and fired him, which - given the Old Man's real problem was all about the potential negative costs incurred - would have just compounded the issue of wasting too much money.
As for the Robo vs Ed fight, that was all quite plainly made out to all be Robo's fault, nothing doing to Dick.

Quote:
Jones told Clarence to destroy Robocop and gave him the “major firepower” he needed. So why was he leaving after Joe got shot by Murphy? I mean, his job was to make sure this cyborg was blown away. He made sure Morton was blown up; It’s like I’m outta here and Emil and Leon can handle him!

I was thinking more he was moving to attack Robo from a different position - trying to surround him, hence him yelling to the others to cut him off. If he was looking to get away he'd have been long gone from the mill, not driving around/towards it.
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Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:08 pm Reply with quote

Stan The Man :

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The Old Man was really upset when Dick Jones’ robot killed Kinney, and I’m sure he saw all the damage that was caused after Ed and Robo fought. Why didn’t Jones get suspended or fired because of all the problems his robot caused?

Likely had an expensive employment contract that would have had to be bought out if they up and fired him, which - given the Old Man's real problem was all about the potential negative costs incurred - would have just compounded the issue of wasting too much money.


That's a good point but I also think it could just be because Dick Jones has high standing and strong reputation with OCP going way back. Him and the old man are probably members of the same country club, they have family that goes back to the old country, that kinda thing. So the old man was very angry with him but doesn't mean he was ready to let him go.

This reminds me of one time at the restaurant I work at one of the guys accidentally put a ton of mayo in the freezer instead of the fridge by accident. He got the boxes confused with the boxes cookies come in. The owners were very upset, it cost a lot of money, wasted time, and left us with no mayo for a while. It was a stupid but honest mistake and he had been a good employee for years so they did not fire him. It isn't exactly the same situation, obviously Dick Jones was corrupt and tried to kill the old man to escape prison... but this is typical corporate greed. To the old man Kinney was just a frozen bottle of mayo.




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Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 2:50 am Reply with quote

I love the mayo in the freezer analogy. I am sure that in both situations, when someone screws up, business people have to deal with their employees and the consequences of mistakes. I also used to work in a restaurant and when I was washing dishes, we had to clean these damn gravy boats. They never fit in the racks right, they were always falling into the machine, you couldn't stack them when they were drying and carrying them. Needless to say, I broke a bunch of them. I am sure that they were expensive (ornately sculpted ceramic), but I never got fired either. However, they eventually switched to metal ones.
Perhaps the Old Man felt that a work around was better and instead of putting all the power into his subordinates, he decided to take a more hands on approach, hence his portrayal as the big bad corporate schemer in RoboCop 2.




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