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chaos one
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Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:38 pm Reply with quote

He was really surrounded though and he really couldn't get away even if he did somewhat recover. Too many guys around.



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Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 4:40 pm Reply with quote

This is just the hobby shrink talking but it looks like there is a clear connection to being scared of that dismantling scene and hating RoboCop2. There seems to be a whole bunch of people that got mental scars from that scene that reflects on the overall opinion on the film.

Maybe...?




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Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:04 pm Reply with quote

Good question, Johan.

When I was a child I was scared as hell by the death of Murphy and Emil. And I spent years watching the whole film except Murph´s death. But I loved the movie anyway.

As I said before, for me Robo 2 tries too hard to be more than the first one, but lacks in "soul" (yes, we have the tender and sad moment where he lies to his wife, before stalk her, but that´s all). Got some memorable scenes (the Robo 2 tests are hillarious; the first scene with Robo is classic), but the whole film doesn´t feel good old Robo to me. I wish I could love more Robo 2 (and even 3), but every sequel lacks something from the first (and let´s not talk about the comics).




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Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:51 pm Reply with quote

Well we know it certainly is the case with me. Like I posted before, the dismemberment plot not only ruins the entire R2 movie for me, but almost the entire franchise.

There is just a certain lack of style, or dignity or finesse with the whole thing. RoboCop just gets strapped to a table and drilled into pieces and then moments later he's fully repaired again. What should be the main event of the movie that should be worked slowly towards again and then an experience the main character learns from ... it's just there in the middle of the movie. It just suddenly happens and then a couple scenes later it is a done ordeal.

Like I've written before, to me it's not only poorly written storytelling ... it's also a big and huge disservice to RoboCop as a character.

Like in my other post where I compared it to other characters like KITT or Johnny 5, our main character getting kicked in the balls is a standard storytelling trope. But usually it's a learning moment for our main character or some other form of putting something in place, like our badguy showing might.

But even Cain showing his might doesn't really work here, because all he does is just stand there and lets his gang members operate all machinery. Where's our Boddicker grabbing a metal spike and jamming it into Robo's chest in a moment of our main character's weakness ?

And RoboCop learning from it? Yeah this is where the cut scene of RoboCop visiting his grave should come in handy. A moment where our main character reflects on what's happening to him. But with it cut, we just have our vague Robo-limbo-coma followed by RoboCop is a goofball followed by the also vague "are we cops" motivational speech which also seems to have been cut short. This is where RoboCop could have grown as a leader character, gathering all his experience to bring the fight back to Cain.

When I think RoboCop dismembered I also often think Batman's back broken by Bane. But where Bane was written as a calculating smart villain who used distraction and fatigue to pick off Batman at the worst possible time ... well you know the rest. RoboCop strolls in, Cain stands there and whammo RoboCop gets f*cked. And a couple scenes later ...

It just frustrates me to no end. RoboCop 2 could have been thát movie where RoboCop finally faces an enemy so extremely wicked enough that RoboCop is outsmarted or outpowered and almost faces his ultimate death. But yeah, Robo dismembered is just there in the middle of the movie, Cain basically does jackall and there is no proper buildup or reflection.

By the way, why does Cain let Duffy get brutally tortured and murdered (also something if I recall correctly Cain/Kong originally did himself in one of the drafts, but here in the movie he just stands there again) ? Duffy basically brought RoboCop to Cain on a silver platter so that Cain could do his thing with him. In the marvel comic Angie says something like "Cain could have been killed you know?!" Well ... maybe Cain shouldn't be an evil druglord if he doesn't like the chances of catching a bullet that much...

Anyway like I said before, by typing this out I hope to hit some sort of psychological peace of mind, but yeah between all horrifying R rated action movies I watched as a kid, R2 happens to be the only one to actually mess me up.




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Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:47 pm Reply with quote

Maxlee :
The dismemberment plot not only ruins the entire R2 movie for me, but almost the entire franchise.


Interesting choice. I would have gone with Robocpp 3 or Robcop: The Series or Robocop: PD or Robocop: Alpha Commando or any of the post-Dark Horse Robocop comics....

I do like your analogy to Bane though. The difference is there was a LOT more time to set that event up, and then a LOT more time to deal with the repercussions and recovery. Here that all had to be squeezed into a single film along with several other plot-lines, and, well, you saw how that went when they tried to squeeze Bane's story into a Batman movie with several other plot-lines...
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Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 5:58 pm Reply with quote

Well that's always kinda bothered me, he gets stripped, returns after getting repaired and in that time nothing really happened and that's pretty much it.

Robo takes no new approach to it besides involving the rest of the police force. Which in a way doesn't do much excepts gets them injured/killed. Robo takes no tactics or anything , just walks in the same way he did before. He shoots a sniper but not a sniper of a heavily armed gun, just some stupid sniper, only cause it wasn't Hob.

The only advantage he has the second time is that he caught them off guard.

So yeah the whole return and stuff is a little lackluster.


Fun Fact: Cain and gang never refer to Robocop by name at all, despite Robo constantly saying Cain's name.




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Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:22 pm Reply with quote

It could be interesting to see the "original" Robo-into-pieces scene, according to the Avatar Press comic. Robo trying to save an innocent while a whole builiding collapses and the enemies keep firing rockets into him.



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Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:05 am Reply with quote

The notion of the magnet blowing out most of his systems is an interesting one. It would make sense of why he did nothing to fight back. Just a pity it wasn't portrayed that way in the film. A few POV shots saying:

WARNING: SYSTEM DAMAGE
20% ENERGY LEVELS

would have made it a bit clearer to the viewer.


Another thought, Robo gets hit by the crane and his view becomes blurry. Yet, when battling RoboCain, gets hit repeatedly around the head and does not appear to do any damage.




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Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:15 pm Reply with quote

Him being dismantled didn't hold any water like him being murdered when he was a human.

To me, it just seemed more of an annoyance and script oversight.

That reminds me, I better pick up that comic book adaptation of the original script.




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Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:20 pm Reply with quote

razgriz21 :
That reminds me, I better pick up that comic book adaptation of the original script.


Go ahead but I very much doubt that will alleviate your disappointment with R2.

Anyway I do agree, its a big narrative flaw in the film - He gets dismantled and then he's out of it for quite a bit of time. Odd since he's what the film is about. Only to then come back with the wacky directives, and then rouse the cops up and all that... Bah... Maybe I better quit while I'm ahead, this stuff has been said many times before. I will just say that the dismantling alone was not that big a problem, but to me, more the events that occurred after.

Which isn't the point of the topic so much so again, I'll stop there.
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Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:45 pm Reply with quote

Yeah, when I was a kid, the Dismantling of Robocop was a bit freaky for me. Maybe just as much as when Murphy gets blown away by Clarence and the gang. You guys also touched on the point of Robo getting his car blown up by a rocket in the beginning and he just kinda walks out without a scratch on him and then he somewhat easily gets taken apart by Cain and his guys.
Also when the kid says "They say he has a brain, I want to see it", do we assume thaqt because Robo's helmet was off, they checked out his brain and then carefully put everything back together? Or maybe Cain told the kid off camera of course, "No no, its too gruesome for you, maybe we will just take his helmet off instead." ?? I was kinda hoping to see the brain.

I mean, they had him at their mercy and the kid wanted to see it...I didn't understand why they added those lines to the film and nothing was really done about it. I'm sure that when they got his helmet off, they could have gotten into the metallic skull and opened his brain up to take a peek.

Plus, if I were them, I would have dismantled him and smashed his brain to bits so they would have to deal with him later.. you know, make sure hes dead. Are all criminials, real or movie criminals really this stupid? Why would you take the risk that the Multi-national conglomerate that built the damn thing wouldn't put him back together eventually?

Just found it a bit stupid...

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Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:43 am Reply with quote

Rob O'Coplin :
Yeah, when I was a kid, the Dismantling of Robocop was a bit freaky for me. Maybe just as much as when Murphy gets blown away by Clarence and the gang. You guys also touched on the point of Robo getting his car blown up by a rocket in the beginning and he just kinda walks out without a scratch on him and then he somewhat easily gets taken apart by Cain and his guys.



The big difference is, explosion vs being tied down after power loss and double knockout, and having a pneumatic hammer drilling into weak spots at the joints. Robo has been shown to brush off explosions (gas station blowup) but being much more vulnerable when hit up close in weak spots (Clarence spearing Robo)


Quote:
Also when the kid says "They say he has a brain, I want to see it", do we assume thaqt because Robo's helmet was off, they checked out his brain and then carefully put everything back together? Or maybe Cain told the kid off camera of course, "No no, its too gruesome for you, maybe we will just take his helmet off instead." ?? I was kinda hoping to see the brain.


I doubt Hob really had much too say other than just babbling like an excited kid. Plus, I always, since the first viewing, understood that Cain didnt want to just kill Robocop because he was much crueler than that. They dismantled him and beat him up to a point where he seemed like a brain damaged, suffering, hopeless being, and they wanted to leave him at that state and also show everyone what theyve done to him, something worse than simply killing him


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Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:49 pm Reply with quote

................I still would have killed him.

I guess I'm more compassionate than Cain Laughing more of a "get the job done" kinda guy. Oh well, thanks for the input. Smile




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Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:57 pm Reply with quote

Rob O'Coplin :
................I still would have killed him.

I guess I'm more compassionate than Cain Laughing more of a "get the job done" kinda guy. Oh well, thanks for the input. Smile


Its a good thing that you don't think like a sadistic psycho man Wink



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