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Spectrum Scarlet
Sgt-L1*
SIMPY 4 PIMPY
 
Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Post Count: 154
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  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:31 pm |
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The scripts for the most part were, I thought, pretty good. Creative, original and fresh. Violent. But the choice of producer/director, his choice of lead actor and composer, along with too low a budget for 4 feature-length films, killed any chance of it being barely watchable.
What's your thoughts on it? Would you be interested to see it done right? A remake of "PD" could be quite a compelling way to kickstart a new, future-set premise of the character (rather than going down the Blade Runner/"Corporate Wars" road). Perhaps as an episodic series in the high-concept vein that's fast becoming Netflix's thing now. I haven't seen "Altered Carbon", but on the face of it, it has a certain cyberpunk vibe to it.
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Stan The Man
Bah Concepts Division
Joined: 05 Jun 2003
Post Count: 7020
Comment: I'm the guy in Old Archive.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:18 am |
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'Creative, original, and fresh'? Really? Did we watch the same show? I found that shit to be loose, droll trash at best. And thus it woulda sucked even if most of the other aspects were improved. Shitty story is shitty story, end of. Dark Justice was passable but the rest can't even lick its' boots. Trap delves into this in much better detail:
| Just two parts of RoboTrap's extensive 'why PD is utter fail' list : | Plot: Big one here. "Bio-tech virus" that infects both electronics and organics? Okay, throw me some techno babble to explain it away and you've got yourself a deal. Oh, couldn't bother to try and give an explanation because even you guys thought it was the stupidest fucking idea in the world? Kaydick? Random bleached blond mad scientist dude. Alrighty, what's his motivation, why does he want to destroy the world? "It's sick". Wow, that was a cop out. Why were you hired again? Oh, it was thrown into the submission pile as a joke? That makes sense. It reads like slash fiction without the sex. Moving on, this doesn't deserve serious critical thought.
Writing: Some people liked the writing. I thought it was plotting and banal. There was two film's worth material in the script, possibly three depending on the director. Not that it mattered, the entire thing came off like it was written by the resident high-schooler/aspiring writer the day before shooting onto cue cards held off screen, which might explain why the entire damned thing is disjointed. And why "What are you prepared to do?" pops up a half dozen times in each film. RoboCop's signature line, "Dead or alive, you're coming with me", shows up twice in RC1. Twice. How many times down Arnold say "I'll be back" in Term1? Once. When you shove catchphrases down our throats we will choke and despise you for it. |
That said, some bits I wouldn't mind being expounded on and used as part of a base for some kind of reboot. Even then we're still talking about massive re-tooling along with though, enough to where it really wouldn't be quite what PD was. Which can only be a good thing frankly.. Again some stuff maybe but PD proper? Shit that tripe doesn't deserve a boot, let alone a reboot.
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I don't wanna pay that, PhotoBucket. Now maybe you haven't heard, but I'm the guy in old Archive. So hows about you just shit snow for a year and I'll figure out something else. Sayonara!
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RoboPimp
PIMPY SUPREME
Joined: 10 Mar 2007
Post Count: 3124
Comment: "You dead wrong if ya think that pimpin' gon' die" - Snoop Dogg, P.I.M.P. (Remix)
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:29 am |
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| Spectrum Scarlet : | | The scripts for the most part were, I thought, pretty good. Creative, original and fresh. |
Not.
Let's face it: PD sucks all around. You can't just blame the actors or production values. The plot is inherently flawed. Those scripts are so padded out with bullshit there is hardly a real movie's worth of interesting content buried underneath. I recently rewatched PD since it is on Amazon Prime, and while it was not outright torture, there were little to no redeeming qualities. I did like when Robo was on the run, hiding out in the marketplace, decked out in robes. But gosh, there is so much shit in this series, like Murphy's son or basically any of the overdeveloped, yet still annoying and boring, human characters. Robo's plot arc was just OK, but with all the filler around it, far too predictable and ultimately dull, same for Robocable who is a fine enough character but unoriginal. The problem with PD is larger, however, with a lot of horrible dialogue stuffed into the overblown plot. The scripts are inherently flawed, and even remade with unlimited budget the end result would look good but still be boring. They could do a total overhaul, doing a new take on the same story with a new script, but PD is such a plain and uninspired Robotale that what would be the point?
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RoboFan_93
Would Buy You For a Dollar
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Post Count: 4165
Comment: Scumbags see the judge on Monday morning
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:44 pm |
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Funny, I just rewatched it last week...which was my second viewing of it in general and I had the exact same thoughts I had some 10 years ago when I first saw it.
"Dark Justice" and "Meltdown" are decent, "Dark Justice" especially. Have some better production values, remove Bone Machine and with a few minor edits it could be a decent thing. Once they start flickin' the laser staffs and Robo dons the robes...yeah...it goes downhill really fast.
A lot of the things in PD seem to be lifted from other works, but done worse. S.A.I.N.T. is similar to Neurobrain, only nowhere near as interesting, as Diana had nice interactions with Murphy. Cable is cool, but misused and the plot is so overblown it gets tedious very fast.
It could work. But it would need heavy rewriting. Better acting and effects would also help.
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Anything you post can be used against you!
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ChAnOoD
DC-L4
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Post Count: 2763
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:19 am |
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Still working on a PD edit. First, tried to edit the whole thing, but due to the sound mix is almost impossible to make it work. So I choose a "redo", changing the whole story, adding some new effects and focusing it on Robo and (human) Cable. Less mariach trumpet too. It takes time, but Iīll let you know. I like PD, and most of the haters even agree that "Dark Justice" is the best of the bunch, so I focus in that one as the main story.
So, yes. I think a PD edit could work. Itīs funny how small edits could change a lot of things.
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JohnBoyAdvance
Sgt-L1
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Post Count: 188
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 8:29 am |
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I just remember a scene where Robocop was in Arabian Nights. Then I remembered that it was supposed to be set in the future. In America. No good sir. No.
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vegasrobo
RoboGod and Shit
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Post Count: 2401
Comment: Vegas Baby!!!
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:42 pm |
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No just no....It was shit from the moment it was conceived.
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HOB888
O-L5
Joined: 17 May 2012
Post Count: 141
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Spectrum Scarlet
Sgt-L1*
SIMPY 4 PIMPY
Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Post Count: 154
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| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:43 am |
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Sorry for not responding to this sooner, fellas.
Wow. Guess I was wrong! I still think the writers came up with some pretty interesting strands and concepts. They were probably cheap and eager to work, but clearly, they weren't as experienced and adept as those who'd come before them.
I stand by the line that a different, more proficient 'common-sense' director (who doesn't produce) would've handled "PD" in a sharper manner. Agreed on the general consensus of the series' length. 4 movies was overkill. I'd say 3 at the most - maybe even 2. Perhaps they should've gone the same way as SyFy, when they tested the waters with "Battlestar Galactica". The 180-min. pilot was split up into two 90-min. features. That was probably ample enough for "Prime Directives" and I know when I spoke to Julian Grant in a Q&A leading up to the debut of "PD", how he had quiet hopes for a weekly series off the back of it.
That was maybe a good thing it didn't come to pass! A tougher, more 'high-end' producer (like Don Bellisario or Steve Bochco) was needed to keep an eye on a guy like him. He may well not've been hired or even considered, had they been on the project.
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ChAnOoD
DC-L4
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Post Count: 2763
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| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:05 pm |
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| Spectrum Scarlet : | | Wow. Guess I was wrong! I still think the writers came up with some pretty interesting strands and concepts. They were probably cheap and eager to work, but clearly, they weren't as experienced and adept as those who'd come before them. |
Iīve been ripping my Blu Ray of The Series to do some edits and such, and Iīve watched some of the episodes. I said it before: the story from PD with the crew of The Series would make the whole thing more interesting for most of the RoboCommunity. Iīm doing some stuff just for fun at the moment and I think you people would like to watch some of these edits. Iīve been doing some cuts from PD for ages and there are things I canīt understand. In the whole miniseries they didnīt record some wide shots to know where we are. Thereīs a CGI OCP building and Annīs hideout/garage, but most of the time I felt the episodes needed wider shots to breathe. Same with the visual narrative: too much close ups everywhere. Letting the audience to see the things around the characters would help.
Plus, they had access to The Series, and yet they used these clips on the most random way. They could use some landscapes to make PD bigger. Or even some of the action sets and real explosions to enhance what they had, but they chose to take a shot of Roboīs foot from the 94 show. I think they could shot things like that by themselves.
| Spectrum Scarlet : | | I stand by the line that a different, more proficient 'common-sense' director (who doesn't produce) would've handled "PD" in a sharper manner. Agreed on the general consensus of the series' length. 4 movies was overkill. I'd say 3 at the most - maybe even 2. Perhaps they should've gone the same way as SyFy, when they tested the waters with "Battlestar Galactica". The 180-min. pilot was split up into two 90-min. features. That was probably ample enough for "Prime Directives" and I know when I spoke to Julian Grant in a Q&A leading up to the debut of "PD", how he had quiet hopes for a weekly series off the back of it. |
Not sure about the lenght. I think they could have done 4 films, if they had time and a clear vision of how to deal with the plot. Again, I already said that, but it looks like they had the first two chapters ready and then they had to re-write the rest. It shows in the finished product. Dark Justice can be boring for some people, but even PD haters agree itīs a solid one, and not "too bad". A lil mistery here, some action and blood, and stablishing the world. Not bad.
"Meltdown" looks like a follow up from the previous one, but "Resurrection" and "Crash & Burn" looked like a different thing from the first one or two chapters. Iīm sure budget had to do with that (scripts pictured bigger action set pieces, more FX and damaged Robos), but also the script felt "too sci-fi" for the producers. Funny you mentioned "Battlestar Galactica", as Joseph OīBrien mentioned the PD scripts came before the reboot of the 70īs space opera show and "The Matrix", so the producers werenīt aware of deeper science fiction themes. They didnīt want to have RoboCop missing during the third chapter, having dreams and interacting with an AI, and wanted more action. And it shows how "Resurrection" and "Crash & Burn" lose their points and seem lost into their own plot.
All of that being said, I did a recreation of the missing scene from Dark Justice some hours ago. Back when it was broadcast, the first episode had a scene of Murphy deleting some MediaNet segments. I tried to be as closer to the real thing. I noticed they added some extra gun muzzles in a few shots, so I added them. I gave the MediaNet segments a little bit of RoboVision (I think the original didnīt include that, but makes little sense since RoboCop would watch these that way). Just to have a cleaner look of how that scene would look. Hereīs a link: https://youtu.be/uqMm35rQNmY
It was fun to do. Not too complicated (they used the same helmetless scenes over and over in DJ) and then put some The Series shots there. For the audio I used the original from the scene plus the score to boost the quality and trying to hide the noise from the VHS. I wonder if someone from the miniseres have the scene or was it lost as almost all the behind the scenes stuff they did back in the day...
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Spectrum Scarlet
Sgt-L1*
SIMPY 4 PIMPY
Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Post Count: 154
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:03 pm |
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| ChAnOoD : | All of that being said, I did a recreation of the missing scene from Dark Justice some hours ago. Back when it was broadcast, the first episode had a scene of Murphy deleting some MediaNet segments. I tried to be as closer to the real thing. I noticed they added some extra gun muzzles in a few shots, so I added them. I gave the MediaNet segments a little bit of RoboVision (I think the original didnīt include that, but makes little sense since RoboCop would watch these that way). Just to have a cleaner look of how that scene would look. Hereīs a link: https://youtu.be/uqMm35rQNmY
It was fun to do. Not too complicated (they used the same helmetless scenes over and over in DJ) and then put some The Series shots there. For the audio I used the original from the scene plus the score to boost the quality and trying to hide the noise from the VHS. I wonder if someone from the miniseres have the scene or was it lost as almost all the behind the scenes stuff they did back in the day... |
That was great, Chanood. Decent montage. The first shot of Robo's feet approaching the Mersky building security gate, as the Metro South cops fire by them in 'Heartbreakers', looks like you've remastered it or colourised it somewhat. Can see why they dropped the whole scene after broadcast, though. It's padding and unnecessary; doesn't serve to propel the story anymore forward.
Maybe they couldn't afford the licensing for the extra "Series" footage either, when negotiating the rights for the DVD release. The copyright holders of the '94 show probably wanted additional payments, beyond PD's budget. Grant and co. had already cut together another montage using 2nd Unit shots from it of various explosions and stunts. A commercial during a MediaNet break, early on in "Dark Justice", showcases them.
They also recycled what "The Series" producers used in the pilot episode from the original movie. Murphy flashing back to his murder, at the hands of Boddicker, Emil and Leon. It's just after he'd witnessed his wife asking for help from Family Services, with a videotape of their son, who'd ran away. That scene by the way was heartbreaking in itself (no pun intended). A single mother, who once had a husband, now having to deal with her boy alone, whose now the one depressed and lost, after the loss of his father, opening presents on Christmas Day. Material that could have been explored more in the pilot, amongst all of the OCP-centric storylines/plot. Half wonder whether the pilot could have been a 3-parter. Not likely in syndication.
The producers of "PD" decided to re-use further shots that the "The Series" had utilised for its regular Opening-Titles sequence. The drug factory door being pounded by Robo in the first movie and the low shot of Murphy's body on a stretcher cart, turning a corner at the end of the hospital corridor. They cut those into Murphy's batshit crazy, out-of-nowhere nightmare in "Resurrection", which a member here has as an animated avatar.
Page Fletcher at his best. Saw him the other week in the pilot of "Due South", playing an Emil/Leon type of character. Was great.
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Archive
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Joined: 17 Nov 2001
Post Count: 6533
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:44 pm |
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| ChAnOoD : | | In the whole miniseries they didnīt record some wide shots to know where we are. Thereīs a CGI OCP building and Annīs hideout/garage, but most of the time I felt the episodes needed wider shots to breathe. Same with the visual narrative: too much close ups everywhere. Letting the audience to see the things around the characters would help. |
Oh yeah. Definitely agree. Just looking at the boardroom scenes and that place is terribly cramped.
It should have been much larger with actual windows like in the movies or TV series but in PD it looks like they are sitting in a someones garage.
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ChAnOoD
DC-L4
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Post Count: 2763
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:54 pm |
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| Spectrum Scarlet : | | That was great, Chanood. Decent montage. The first shot of Robo's feet approaching the Mersky building security gate, as the Metro South cops fire by them in 'Heartbreakers', looks like you've remastered it or colourised it somewhat. |
Thanks! I added more contrast to The Series footage, and tried to sharpen the image a little bit as well.
I had several ideas. One of them is taking PD and "remix" it into a different thing (as different as 4 films could allow me to be). The sad part of this project is that takes ages, since each frame has to be restored in some form. Iīm trying to make it on a different aspect ratio, so most of the shots need more background space, and then I cut characters and put on different places, or enhance the sets and such. A pain in the ass that would take a lot. But Iīm doing some stuff. I have to see if I could put more stuff from The Series on the mix as well.
And there are a few other things using the 94 Series that would be interesting to work on. One of these includes a hybrid of PD and The Series. I hope Iīll be able to have it sooner.
| Spectrum Scarlet : | | Can see why they dropped the whole scene after broadcast, though. It's padding and unnecessary; doesn't serve to propel the story anymore forward. |
Yep. Itīs also funny how they could recycle the same shots over and over. In Dark Justice, the basement scenes use the same footage twice. Closeups of Murphyīs face, or RoboCop leaving the RoboChamber and walking on the halls of the basement. Iīve been toying with edit the miniseries in the past and you could take the previously seen scenes, and the narrative would be the same.
So, I can understand why they cut it, but I wonder how many scenes are cut from the miniseries. I know thereīs a (filmed) scene when the OCP urinal grabs someone from his private parts as the urinal proved he did drugs. Both of these scenes would be included in "Dark Justice", so I wonder if each episode would have its own length instead of the same 90 minutes.
A different ending for "Crash & Burn" was filmed as well (after Robo dissapearing into the sunset), but not used as well.
I guess these scenes werenīt included on the Sci-Fi Channelīs broadcast, but I found strange that they put the MediaNet segments one in Dark Justice when it aired. If they tried to have 90 minutes for each episode, this one would last one or two minutes longer than the rest.
| Archive : | | Oh yeah. Definitely agree. Just looking at the boardroom scenes and that place is terribly cramped. It should have been much larger with actual windows like in the movies or TV series but in PD it looks like they are sitting in a someones garage. |
I tried in the past to enhance these parts as well. I did some test, where I changed the side walls from the OCP boardroom, which had these steel plates, for a skyline from The Series. Itīs still a small place, but it looks thereīs something more.
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Rick
CH-L4
Joined: 10 Jan 2002
Post Count: 3728
Comment: I'm The No. 2 Guy Around Here
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:57 pm |
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It probably was someone's garage, let's be honest!
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"PRIME DIRECTIVES": could it be remade?
