| Author |
Message |
Archive
.
 
Joined: 17 Nov 2001
Post Count: 6533
|
  Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:58 pm |
|
|
|
| Spectrum Scarlet : | | It's a very cheap-looking film that hasn't aged well. The stop-motion effects, set builds, the lack of finish on the suit and most of the pyrotechnics; they just let it down. |
|
|
 |
|
 |
Stan The Man
Bah Concepts Division
Joined: 05 Jun 2003
Post Count: 7020
Comment: I'm the guy in Old Archive.
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:03 pm |
|
|
|
| The Fuck? : | | It's not your typical, conventional opening to a commercial, action 'superhero' movie. |
Given it's not really a commercial action 'superhero' movie to begin with, that makes sense.
| Seriously, The Fuck? : | I don't think it's perfect. It's great, but not perfect.
...
It's a very cheap-looking film that hasn't aged well. The stop-motion effects, set builds, the lack of finish on the suit and most of the pyrotechnics; they just let it down. |
Robo pass REVOKED.
..Ok, I get you're speaking on behalf of 'newer audiences' but for the most part 'newer audiences' wouldn't know a good film if it bit them on the nose and punched them in the crotch with their incessant obsession with 'remastering' everything and wanting so much pretty fluff they actually forget the film is as deep as a spill on my kitchen counter.
We're talking drastically different kinds of filmmaking here. RoboCop even on it's best day can't compete with Marvel-anything or any of that stuff, and shouldn't.
Which is something even you ultimately agree with as well with your conclusion -
| Quote: | | I think going down the animated route, direct-to-DVD/BluRay and streamers, is the right way to go. The possibilities are endless with no limitations whatsoever. |
_________________
I don't wanna pay that, PhotoBucket. Now maybe you haven't heard, but I'm the guy in old Archive. So hows about you just shit snow for a year and I'll figure out something else. Sayonara!
|
|
|
|
|
Spectrum Scarlet
Sgt-L1*
SIMPY 4 PIMPY
Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Post Count: 154
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:55 am |
|
|
|
| ChAnOoD : | | Hell, no. Iīm tired of Lucas craziness over his past work. It wonīt be perfect; stop getting more CGI crap that doesnīt add anything. Also, he wonīt let people get an HD version of the original films. Iīve seen the original trilogy and Iīd love to own it on Blu Ray as it was originally intended. |
Hell, yes. I'm not talking about a major overhaul where that's concerned. The stop-motion FX and matte paintings make up only 5 minutes of the whole film. Save for the other 5 minutes where the closing credits take up, it's a mere fraction of a 95-minute film we're talking about updating. Hardly crazy or drastic. Merely to freshen up the overall production.
The CGI recreations Lucas produced for "A New Hope", for example, are arguably infinitely superior to the original visuals they shot back in 1977. The same could be done for "RoboCop" and you have to admit, as the studio themselves and the independent distributors have released various HD masters of the film to death over the years (which are now in circulation to television channels worldwide), the ED-209 sequences and some of the matte shots do not hold up in any way in the slightest, and if anything, bring the movie down in terms of production values. They've aged extremely poorly and not gracefully. Times have changed and some visual effects techniques have improved.
In those cases, I would love to see what the right, talented and educated CGI artists could do in bringing those up-to-date - with restraint and not adding any artificial camera shake, no new camera angles (just the existing originals) or additional design elements to give ED a makeover like the 2014 reboot did. Just stick to Hayes' and Tippett's original conception, perhaps any details THEY wanted to add (but couldn't, because of time/money) and animate him digitally.
What would be the harm in that.
| ChAnOoD : | Well, The Series did their job perfectly: in a single minute for itīs opening you know who RoboCop is. Thereīs no need to tell the same story over and over. It happens with Batman as well: Iīm sure more than 75% of the population know his origin, but it keeps popping over and over on films. I liked the Adam West 66 approach: he told the story on a sentence or two in the first episodes.
A Netflix live action series would work fine. You could go dark and violent and develop the story. But Iīd love a "RoboCop Returns" with the script from Neumeier & Miner. Yes, weīve heard crazy stuff about their ideas, but Iīd prefer to know what the creators of the character had in mind, even if thatīd fail miserably, than another attempt to do more of the same, or a PG-13, cool for the kids, reboot with no soul. |
"The Series" came hot on the heels of a globally well-known motion picture trilogy; a year after the 3rd & final entry; and during the whole 'pop culture' phenomenon of the character in that early-to-mid part of the 1990's. Of course we knew who RoboCop was by the time the pilot episode first aired. Neumeier, Miner and the producers knew that, so didn't make any attempt to explain it again. Their target audience was the established fanbase of the franchise, not necessarily new viewers. They were capitalising on his notoriety and fame. That pre-knowledge the public had.
I don't particularly know the origin of Batman/Bruce Wayne, because I'm not a fan of that character. But if a brand new series or film run were done today of RoboCop, you would need to refrofit the original picture or remake it entirely. But NOT for a "cool", "sick", hip, PG-13 audience. I never said that. That wasn't where I was coming from on this.
|
|
|
|
|
Spectrum Scarlet
Sgt-L1*
SIMPY 4 PIMPY
Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Post Count: 154
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:21 am |
|
|
|
| Stan The Man : | | The Fuck? : | | It's not your typical, conventional opening to a commercial, action 'superhero' movie. |
Given it's not really a commercial action 'superhero' movie to begin with, that makes sense.
| Seriously, The Fuck? : | I don't think it's perfect. It's great, but not perfect.
...
It's a very cheap-looking film that hasn't aged well. The stop-motion effects, set builds, the lack of finish on the suit and most of the pyrotechnics; they just let it down. |
Robo pass REVOKED. |
Stan - whatever. You're obviously accustomed to viewing the film today with rose-tinted glasses on.
I'm not. I'm sorry.
It needs a makeover in some areas.
If the studio are completely serious about bringing him back and are afraid to spend tens of millions of dollars to do so, they could just as easily start with a project like this, to test the waters with his popularity. Give the film that bigger, lavish 'blockbuster' look it should have got back in '87, without as I say, overhauling it outright.
Imagine what they could do, without affecting the integrity or independent artistry of the film. They could easily consult Verhoeven and co. and involve them in all decisions. Have them approve everything they do, for that 'official', legit seal of approval. You wouldn't go overboard with an aesthetic revamp of the WHOLE movie, man. You'd simply enhance it, a la Lucas with "ANH".
It would be selective.
I don't see what the problem is in doing that. Or even thinking about it.
| Stan The Man : | ..Ok, I get you're speaking on behalf of 'newer audiences' but for the most part 'newer audiences' wouldn't know a good film if it bit them on the nose and punched them in the crotch with their incessant obsession with 'remastering' everything and wanting so much pretty fluff they actually forget the film is as deep as a spill on my kitchen counter.
We're talking drastically different kinds of filmmaking here. RoboCop even on it's best day can't compete with Marvel-anything or any of that stuff, and shouldn't.
Which is something even you ultimately agree with as well with your conclusion -
| Quote: | | I think going down the animated route, direct-to-DVD/BluRay and streamers, is the right way to go. The possibilities are endless with no limitations whatsoever. |
|
You're completely misunderstanding what I've written. I had a feeling someone would here.
Where did I say that the film could compete with today's Marvel output? At what point was I talking about incorporating their kind of filmmaking with "RoboCop's"?
You underestimate today's audiences, Stan, and your analogy of likening RC to a kitchen spill sounds more like an insult than a compliment to the movie.
It's also bizarre to even make that analogy. Weird.
My "conclusion", which you've taken wholly out of context, is if MGM STILL didn't want to spend the money to update the original film, the costs would be "much less" in producing animated instalments. You missed that bit out. Next time, quote me in full.
Given your initial patronising response (at the top of your post), I'll leave this here for you - how the studio sold the picture to America: https://youtu.be/rwBL5EYN8og?t=19
Explains why kids kinda latched onto it, doesn't it. :roll:
|
|
|
|
|
ChAnOoD
DC-L4
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Post Count: 2763
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:11 am |
|
|
|
| Spectrum Scarlet : | | Hell, yes. I'm not talking about a major overhaul where that's concerned. The stop-motion FX and matte paintings make up only 5 minutes of the whole film. Save for the other 5 minutes where the closing credits take up, it's a mere fraction of a 95-minute film we're talking about updating. Hardly crazy or drastic. Merely to freshen up the overall production. |
Donīt see anything wrong with stop motion. I guess the complaint from people who would want these getting an upgrade is because it looks blurry at some points. But ED-209 moves like an artificial being thanks to stop motion, and looks cool. I could understand a "restoration" where at some scenes you could take off some grain of the live action projection and add some contrast and such.
No big problems with Matte Painting. I still believe the OCP tower is real. Cool stuff.
And itīd be interesting to see the ending with Dick Jones and his original proportions falling off, but Iīd be curious about it, being fan made or something like that. Not being the official release. Films are made on a time and with some crew and team, and it must be shown like they were made. Netflix and Disney + cut and recropped scenes on "Back To The Future 2" and "Splash". I want to see the original film, not cops with walkie talkies on E.T.
| Spectrum Scarlet : | | The CGI recreations Lucas produced for "A New Hope", for example, are arguably infinitely superior to the original visuals they shot back in 1977. |
Your opinion. Lucas work from the 90īs to present day made him look like a megalomaniac. I tend to see the old school Star Wars palpable; when you add a (quite crappy) Jabba (who doesnīt look like the original) on a scene, it looks like a sticker over an old film. It doesnīt blend. And funny, it makes the look feel dated. Take a look to early 90īs/2000īs movies with CGI, they look laughable in some parts.
The only part of the trilogy where my eyes donīt bleed is Episode V. Changes are made on a tasteful way (without adding impossible rocks where R2 hides) and they enhance some enviroments (like the Cloud City scene). But it doesnīt put the effects on the front page. Same it could say with the prequels. They look incredibly dated with digital characters and over the top stuff. Yoda jumping and fighting was a joke a friend and I did when we were young. It doesnīt look funny when you are supposed to take it seriously. :roll:
| Spectrum Scarlet : | | "The Series" came hot on the heels of a globally well-known motion picture trilogy; a year after the 3rd & final entry; and during the whole 'pop culture' phenomenon of the character in that early-to-mid part of the 1990's. Of course we knew who RoboCop was by the time the pilot episode first aired. Neumeier, Miner and the producers knew that, so didn't make any attempt to explain it again. Their target audience was the established fanbase of the franchise, not necessarily new viewers. They were capitalising on his notoriety and fame. That pre-knowledge the public had. |
Well, the character is always being "capitalising on his notoriety and fame". Thatīs why this site exists and we are talking about it, and thatīs why we have toys, Blu Rays, CDs, T-Shirts and such. Most of the people went to see RebootCop because they knew the character.
| Spectrum Scarlet : | | I don't particularly know the origin of Batman/Bruce Wayne, because I'm not a fan of that character. But if a brand new series or film run were done today of RoboCop, you would need to refrofit the original picture or remake it entirely. But NOT for a "cool", "sick", hip, PG-13 audience. I never said that. That wasn't where I was coming from on this. |
His parents were murdered on an alley when he was a kid, and he decides to take justice under the name of Batman after years of trainings and watching a bat flying on his mansion. Easy, yes? No need to spend a film telling the same thing when you can do a "re-cap" in a minute and move on. You could be someone who didnīt know RoboCop back in the mid 90īs, put the TV and catch The Series, and youīd understand what happened to that guy Murphy. In a minute and with little references over the show. So:
| Me : | | Well, The Series did their job perfectly: in a single minute for itīs opening you know who RoboCop is. Thereīs no need to tell the same story over and over. It happens with Batman as well: Iīm sure more than 75% of the population know his origin, but it keeps popping over and over on films. I liked the Adam West 66 approach: he told the story on a sentence or two in the first episodes. |
The origin stuff itīs just an studio decision to reboot the character, and it usually donīt work. Everyone forget the existence of RebootCop. Plus, new fans would be confused. "Wait a minute, this Murphy guy was gunned on duty? I thought he was injured with a bomb!" Also, itīs almost an insult to the stablished fans: heīs not the "popular" one, so we could do whatever we wanted with the character, even change his origin. Pure 80īs conglomerated tactics 
|
|
|
|
|
Rick
CH-L4
Joined: 10 Jan 2002
Post Count: 3728
Comment: I'm The No. 2 Guy Around Here
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:24 am |
|
|
|
Archive's response is exactly what mine is!
_________________
 18145
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
RoboPimp
PIMPY SUPREME
Joined: 10 Mar 2007
Post Count: 3124
Comment: "You dead wrong if ya think that pimpin' gon' die" - Snoop Dogg, P.I.M.P. (Remix)
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:47 am |
|
|
|
| Spectrum Scarlet : | | Imagine what they could do, without affecting the integrity or independent artistry of the film. |
Nothing. It's nothing. As soon as you start changing details of the film, you have affected the artistry of the film. You might say it is better, but that means you think the artistry has been affected. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You are simultaneously suggesting CGI edits to a move made decades ago and saying the artistry won't be changed. But if you didn't want to change the artistry why suggest altering it in the first place?
I think it's worth noting that the director's cut of RoboCop is not much different than the theatrical cut, with a few shots of violence extended a few seconds. This was no Justice League and there is no need for a Snyder Cut. Verhoeven's vision was realized in full. Take one of the most notorious errors in the film, the length of Dick Jones' arms at the end. If you CGI them to the proper size, the film is 'technically' better but would be a let down to me after seeing that scene the way it was originally released so many times. That goofy charm is part of the artistry and every attempt to fix it only removes it further from the source.
Lucas' alterations aren't exactly a great precedent. They are very controversial, with fans split all across the spectrum. They were profitable, but Star Wars is a massive franchise that can stumble and still profit massively. And one thing in favor of the rereleases is how the series has gone on to the modern day, thus older films were modernized to keep them congruent. But RoboCop is essentially a 'dead' franchise, and the trilogy holds up well within the context of itself. There were no huge leaps in technology to fill in. We don't colorize every black and white film to meet today's standards. Art is almost always taken as a reflection of their times. The old school filmmaking techniques of the original RoboCop might have some flaws, but using modern technology like CGI to 'perfect' RoboCop would be a much bigger flaw to me.
I could go on at great length on this subject, but I'm happy to see others have taken up the cause too. This is a RoboCop forum and I am not surprised that most people don't agree with you and defend the integrity of 1987's RoboCop, a perfect film. Even people who hate all the sequels and spinoffs think it is perfect. It is. There is no need to change RoboCop. It has been great watching the movie go from VHS to DVD and now Blu Ray with the quality increasing along the way. But the quality of the movie itself is still exactly the same. Archive's reaction pic sums up my feelings to reading your deluded ramblings, but I'll leave you with one from me too:
|
|
|
|
|
Stan The Man
Bah Concepts Division
Joined: 05 Jun 2003
Post Count: 7020
Comment: I'm the guy in Old Archive.
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:31 am |
|
|
|
| Spectrum Scarlet : | | You're completely misunderstanding what I've written. I had a feeling someone would here. |
You know, I did misunderstand much of what you wrote - less than you think, but still. I'll grant I was frankly aghast over your remarks. Which is hardly an unexpected response.
| Quote: | | You underestimate today's audiences, Stan, and your analogy of likening RC to a kitchen spill sounds more like an insult than a compliment to the movie. |
Now who's misconstruing who? My statement was likening the vast majority of modern films to being shallower than a puddle, not RoboCop. But hey, not reading things right evidently happens to all of us at times.
| Quote: | | My "conclusion", which you've taken wholly out of context, is if MGM STILL didn't want to spend the money to update the original film, the costs would be "much less" in producing animated instalments. You missed that bit out. Next time, quote me in full. |
Again, a conclusion with which I agree, and frankly prefer. If they're gonna put effort and money anywhere (especially if as you suggest it won't be as much) may as well do something actually different rather than continuing to try and get more blood out of the stone that is RC1.
Beyond that Pimp and Chanood both put it far better than I could so I'll leave it at that.
_________________
I don't wanna pay that, PhotoBucket. Now maybe you haven't heard, but I'm the guy in old Archive. So hows about you just shit snow for a year and I'll figure out something else. Sayonara!
|
|
|
|
|
RoboJOF
Sgt-L4
Joined: 17 May 2015
Post Count: 306
Comment: Bitches, leave!
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:37 am |
|
|
|
If I am understanding Spectrum Scarlet, the original RoboCop looks dated because the special effects of today are much different and the picture and sound quality of current films exceeds that of 1987 filmmaking tech. I can agree with that, but I would not support going back to adjust the original film. I see it like a snapshot from the past. It shows what the filmmakers in 1987 could do and their vision for a science fiction futuristic film. Much like George Lucas had ideas in the 1970s about what his futuristic world (long ago, far far away) would look like. Unlike Lucas, I don't ever recall any of the filmmakers saying that they had to make due with certain things because the technology wasn't there. Lucas' famous vasoline on the camera lens to cover up wheels under the landspeeder were not the issue with RoboCop. Aside from suit construction and makeup issues, they made their film the way they wanted to (and went overbudget doing it). The stop motion was so skillfully done it looks like the real thing. The matte paintings were glorious and the way they added to existing buildings grounds it in reality. The costume design was not only functional but intricately sculpted to look like living metal. If it was made in 2020, I am sure things would be done differently, but I don't think that these milestones in special effects of the 1980s should be covered up.
Now, I don't agree with Lucas' additions to the Star Wars films mostly because they were often garish and excessive. Even if he really dreamed it would be that way, he was changing something that had become part of our collective unconscious, and fans hate that.
In my opinion, the RoboCop universe has a lot of content and creative filmmakers can always contribute more. Let them do it! Hear that MGM? Stop trying to create a toy commercial! Not to mention, you shouldn't have to make 400 million dollars in profit off a movie to justify doing it. Make a good film that adds to the story and move forward. Introduce new with the old and develop the universe into something bigger than it is already. I would love to see Weller have a part. Even if it just ends up being a voice or a full suit performance. Keep it alive!
|
|
|
|
|
RoboFan
R-L2
Joined: 05 Oct 2019
Post Count: 17
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:09 pm |
|
|
|
Keep it alive indeed bit I have my doubts we will not see a new movie for a long time.
34
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
ChAnOoD
DC-L4
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Post Count: 2763
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:53 am |
|
|
|
Some "news" about "RoboCop Returns": https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/robocop-returns-ed-neumeier-starship-troopers
I guess itīs not "Corporate Wars" anymore, as the creator of that "old looking film" says:
| Ed Neumeier : | | We had a deal, Neill came on, then Abe Forsythe came on and I think he's using a lot of the stuff Neill had and some of the original stuff [from the 1998 script]. But Abe is doing his own version, which is what I wanted. |
More like 1988, but sad. Itīd be fun to see what the original writers had to say about the character after all these years.
|
|
|
|
|
Archive
.
Joined: 17 Nov 2001
Post Count: 6533
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:24 pm |
|
|
|
MGM was in a hurry to get this made, and it has had two directors (so far) attached, but it's still hasn't been officially green lit...?
Seems like it is still very far off from being made. Robo is once again in development hell.
|
|
|
|
|
RoboFan
R-L2
Joined: 05 Oct 2019
Post Count: 17
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:28 pm |
|
|
|
Yup. The film not even being green lit is all that can really be taken from that article.
You won't be seeing this movie for a long time and that's IF it get's made.
34
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Rick
CH-L4
Joined: 10 Jan 2002
Post Count: 3728
Comment: I'm The No. 2 Guy Around Here
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:12 pm |
|
|
|
At least it sounded positive, a script should be delivered any day now (Ed hopes) and that should hopefully convince MGM to greenlight it and they can get moving. At least he didn't say "oh, nothing much has happened in a while with that, we really don't know what's happening". So I'm choosing to remain hopeful.
_________________
18145
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Log in for PM
Log in
RoboCop Returns gets new director in Abe Forsythe
