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NOF
O-L1
 
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Post Count: 61
Comment: Who told you how?
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  Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:45 pm |
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I posted this on the Archive Facebook page, but thought it might be worth discussion among those who mightn't use Facebook.
| Quote: | I've read various people complain about Robo 2 and 3 'resetting' Robo's personality and voice back to the way he was originally.
But if you bear the ending to the original in mind, it's not a big shock: the only way for him to kill Dick Jones was for the Old Man to fire him. So, ultimately, he's still in thrall to OCP's programming.
And, considering the Old Man's penchant for dirty deeds (much more pronounced in R2), it wouldn't be a surprise if OCP 'updated' his system in between 1 and 2 in order to remove the more overtly obvious aspects of is personality, such as his voice. |
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ChAnOoD
DC-L4
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Post Count: 2763
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:16 pm |
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What I found interesting about this is not the fact the personality changes from the films, which is not that weird when you know different people were writting the character. Is the fact Neumeier often says he felt the other sequels humanized Murphy, and he finds funny people would assume he gets his life back at the end of the film. He also states that, on script, Murphy is named like that in the parts he´s human, and after his change, he´s referred as Robo.
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Archive
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Joined: 17 Nov 2001
Post Count: 6538
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| Posted: Sun May 24, 2020 12:32 pm |
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Ed Neumeier said in some interview that he felt people misunderstood the ending. After Murphy is killed he is only ever referenced as RoboCop in the script. What Murphy was before is gone. There is no going back.
Just because Murphy remembers who he was before becoming RoboCop, he did not automatically get his life back. He is still the property of OCP. He is still a slave to his programming.
With that said, you will have to excuse Robo if he in the sequel is a bit cold and bitter. 
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RoboPimp
PIMPY SUPREME
Joined: 10 Mar 2007
Post Count: 3124
Comment: "You dead wrong if ya think that pimpin' gon' die" - Snoop Dogg, P.I.M.P. (Remix)
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| Posted: Sun May 24, 2020 9:08 pm |
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| Archive : | Ed Neumeier said in some interview that he felt people misunderstood the ending. After Murphy is killed he is only ever referenced as RoboCop in the script. What Murphy was before is gone. There is no going back.
Just because Murphy remembers who he was before becoming RoboCop, he did not automatically get his life back. He is still the property of OCP. He is still a slave to his programming. |
I absolutely agree and have seen it that way for a long time. To me, the main narrative arc of RoboCop, both the character in the larger scope and the original movie itself, is about RoboCop trying to regain his humanity. It's similar to Data from Star Trek, where he grows as a 'person' but will never be fully human and is not intended to. Or think of Batman's quest for justice, even though he may make the world safer there will always be crime and the quest has no real end. The same should be said for RoboCop, though it seems many think the story is finished when the first movie ends. Perhaps that is why so many people don't want a sequel.
But I think RoboCop 2 is brilliant in approaching the subject. The prototypes show that it took something special to even survive the transition. But is that because RoboCop kept more or less of his humanity than them? It's a question that lingers and is touched upon with Cain's transition too. But really the answer lies in the scene with his wife. Robo has made progress, have no doubt. Other officers call him Murphy and accept him as a person and not just a machine. But there is no question that Robo has lost his humanity when he confronts his wife. He has no free will and shows no emotion. Even if he does have 'real' emotion as often alluded to. But is not human and he makes that totally clear. What makes it so haunting is that he is not just a machine either and he knows it all too well. Half man, half machine, all cop.
I've often complained about how RoboCop's various spin off and side stories have not been interested in making much progress for RoboCop's character arc. Instead they tend to go back as close to the original as possible and build from there. The Marvel comics, running 23 issues and having Robo reunited with wife and son (though in a particularly painful way) in the final arc probably has pushed the character as far as anything. And the results are fascinating. It surely does not end with him being good ol' Alex with a family and regular life despite the robot body. Instead, it ends with a final affirmation that he is ROBOCOP, in his own words. But he is also far from the RoboCop from the first movie, or even the last scene. He is more cognizant, with more free will and emotion. But like Data from Star Trek, he is still a machine.
I really think that the future for RoboCop as a character has always been that quest for humanity. Some people see him as a generic action star and think he should just fight more guys, bigger and badder. I think some people see RoboCop 2 like that, where it's just a simple sequel about RoboCop fighting a bigger and badder robot for the sake of action. There is much more to the story than that, even if all of Frank Miller's ideas on the subject didn't make it to screen. These themes come up in his RoboCop vs Terminator comic too. The more recent RoboCop Terminator: Kill Human actually did a great job of pushing the narrative arc of the character way farther than anything else, even if it is an undoubtedly flawed attempt. But it basically ends with him completely giving in and accepting that he is nothing more than a machine and a pawn who is helpless to stop his own destiny. To me that is a much more compelling take on the character than just "robot man fights obviously evil corporation" which seems to be how most writers and takes on Robo see the core concept of a RoboCop story. And there is no doubt the corporate element is a key tentpole of what RoboCop is about. But I think you could write a great RoboCop story, comic, show, cartoon, movie, etc without touching upon the corporate element. But I don't think you could write a great RoboCop story without his quest for humanity. It could be about him becoming more like a man or accepting he is just a machine. You can go either direction, but without this element then his character arc is not going in any direction. Which is perhaps why over time RoboCop has been seen as more of a simple sci-fi cyborg, built for action and nothing else. And some of those takes have been entertaining, but RoboCop is so much more to me. RoboCop's helmet and gun are what make him look cool. But the internal struggle between man and machine is what makes RoboCop such a compelling character, at least to me.
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Rick
CH-L4
Joined: 10 Jan 2002
Post Count: 3733
Comment: I'm The No. 2 Guy Around Here
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| Posted: Mon May 25, 2020 7:38 am |
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The novelisations do more to flesh out the humanity a bit more, and I believe some of the scenes that were in the novel were filmed or storyboarded for the movie, so perhaps footage of it will appear in RoboDoc 2. The cast did say that they filmed footage that fleshed out Murphy and his family but they were cut out, so hopefully we will finally get to see that footage.
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Mindchamber
DC-L4
Joined: 22 Mar 2003
Post Count: 2746
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| Posted: Mon May 25, 2020 10:43 pm |
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Id agree with the idea that maybe the people around Murphy were humanizing him at the end.. .. but I feel like that smile at the end tells a different story.. he came around.. he is Murphy.. he "woke" up. I always felt like it was the end of this characters arc, and the movie was always supposed to be a one off.
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Archive
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Joined: 17 Nov 2001
Post Count: 6538
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2020 5:49 am |
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To me the ending is so great because it is a happy one but also a tragic one.
What does Robo do after that? He says his name Murphy then he exits the OCP building and what?
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ChAnOoD
DC-L4
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Post Count: 2763
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2020 9:26 am |
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| Archive : | To me the ending is so great because it is a happy one but also a tragic one.
What does Robo do after that? He says his name Murphy then he exits the OCP building and what? |
OCP techs tap his back, take him to his chamber and blank his memory again 
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R1 Ending - Resetting Robo's personality
