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RoboPimp
PIMPY SUPREME
 
Joined: 10 Mar 2007
Post Count: 3124
Comment: "You dead wrong if ya think that pimpin' gon' die" - Snoop Dogg, P.I.M.P. (Remix)
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  Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:05 pm |
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| Archive : | | LaughingSnowman : | | I get depressed watching R2 so I choose not to watch it anymore. I don't even find it fun because it has such a discouraging feel to it. |
Interesting, what parts do you find depressing? I've seen so many movies since R2 that truly are sad and depressing (recently Midsommar and Joker) and nowadays Robo2 is pretty ok in its tone. A bit cold but its fine.
The terrifying Murphys death scene from the first movie still tops anything that Robo2 can throw at you. |
I totally agree. Like anything Frank Miller writes, there is definitely a cynical downer vibe at times, but unlike everything Frank Miller writes, it has a triumphant and optimistic conclusion. If Frank Miller was writing it now, RoboCop would be dead, Cain would still be running a nuke empire, and the ending would be totally bleak. However, that is not what we got, and by the end it is your typical 'hero saves the day' vibe. Far from the most depressing film I've ever seen, and I don't think an action or sci-fi movie can ever really be as dark and depressing at the dramas that are built around that kind of tone. So I do see where you are coming from in terms of the 'discouraging' tone of RoboCop 2, but remember that now matter how discouraged and literally destroyed RoboCop was, Murhpy prevailed and he came back to save the day in the end, and that's a damn hopeful message to me!
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Maxlee
C-L1
Joined: 18 Nov 2011
Post Count: 1082
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| Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:31 pm |
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Funny, the more I see R2, the more I see it as a over the top, sarcastic, looney-esque movie with a strange sense of humor that doesn't take itself serious whatsoever. Like, almost every character is batshit crazy and wouldn't be able to properly function in our own reality.
The violin-man, the surgeons being silly when they casually extract a brain, Catzo as comic relief when our hero is being butchered, Faxx screaming at everyone with her 24/7 annoyed look, OCP being evil for the sake of being evil, Duffy generally being a doofus ...
The movie went from unwatchable cruel to what-were-they-smoking-I-need-more-beer-for-this to me.
Funny thing.
(But make no mistake, I still HATE the dismemberment-plot.)
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Superquad7
Sgt-L3
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Post Count: 297
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| Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:27 pm |
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| Maxlee : | Funny, the more I see R2, the more I see it as a over the top, sarcastic, looney-esque movie with a strange sense of humor that doesn't take itself serious whatsoever. Like, almost every character is batshit crazy and wouldn't be able to properly function in our own reality.
The violin-man, the surgeons being silly when they casually extract a brain, Catzo as comic relief when our hero is being butchered, Faxx screaming at everyone with her 24/7 annoyed look, OCP being evil for the sake of being evil, Duffy generally being a doofus ...
The movie went from unwatchable cruel to what-were-they-smoking-I-need-more-beer-for-this to me.
Funny thing.
(But make no mistake, I still HATE the dismemberment-plot.) |
This guy gets it.
I like the plot, though.
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HOB888
O-L5
Joined: 17 May 2012
Post Count: 141
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| Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:49 pm |
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| RoboPimp : | | Archive : | | LaughingSnowman : | | I get depressed watching R2 so I choose not to watch it anymore. I don't even find it fun because it has such a discouraging feel to it. |
Interesting, what parts do you find depressing? I've seen so many movies since R2 that truly are sad and depressing (recently Midsommar and Joker) and nowadays Robo2 is pretty ok in its tone. A bit cold but its fine.
The terrifying Murphys death scene from the first movie still tops anything that Robo2 can throw at you. |
and by the end it is your typical 'hero saves the day' vibe. Far from the most depressing film I've ever seen, and I don't think an action or sci-fi movie can ever really be as dark and depressing at the dramas that are built around that kind of tone. So I do see where you are coming from in terms of the 'discouraging' tone of RoboCop 2, but remember that now matter how discouraged and literally destroyed RoboCop was, Murhpy prevailed and he came back to save the day in the end, and that's a damn hopeful message to me! |
This is not how I see it.The the Old man is not busted, and Detroit is still plagued by crime.The ending of the original felt happier because all the bad guys got killed or busted at least.
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RoboLewis
O-L2
Joined: 26 Jun 2020
Post Count: 73
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:30 am |
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I wanted to see more scenes with Murphy and Lewis to see how they’ve grown as partners since the end of the first film. I wish some of the deleted scenes were kept in because they were great. Duffy getting cut open, Cain’s brain getting removed and his eyes staring back at you were disturbing scenes. Robocain shooting everyone in the dark and then when he showed his angry face to Angie and kills her was truly frightening! Murphy being stripped is a scene I have skip at times but it hurts to see Murphy in pain!
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Archive
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Joined: 17 Nov 2001
Post Count: 6533
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| Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 6:09 pm |
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Interesting quote from Mark Rolston who played a small part in Robo2 as the character Stef. He is probably most remembered for his part in Aliens.
| Mark Rolston : | RoboCop 2 was fun. The sad part, and I shouldn't probably say this, but Nancy Allen (Officer Lewis), she ruined it for me because she was so bad in the movie.
I had all my scenes with her, she mostly got cut out of the movie, so I was cut along with her. It was a bad experience. |
As much as i like some behind the scenes dirt being thrown around, i doubt that Allen's bad acting was the reason she was mostly cut from the movie.
Full Interview (nothing more about Robo2)
https://aftermoviediner.com/feed/interviews/mark-rolston
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ChAnOoD
DC-L4
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Post Count: 2763
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| Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 7:09 pm |
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| Archive : | | As much as i like some behind the scenes dirt being thrown around, i doubt that Allen's bad acting was the reason she was mostly cut from the movie. |
I wonder if it was more "she behaved bad" than "she acted bad" on R2. If Lewis worked fine on 1 & 3 I can´t see the problem on the second one. Unless Kershner felt she did it horrible to cut her over and over on the final film.
Well, the glamourous life of making pictures...
| HOB888 : | | This is not how I see it.The the Old man is not busted, and Detroit is still plagued by crime.The ending of the original felt happier because all the bad guys got killed or busted at least. |
I think tone is one of the big issues of RoboCop 2. Yes, perhaps the R2 ending is more "realistic", as people with a bunch of cash and power could go anywhere without consequences and such, but the overall tone is ugly. Even the score is!  The first one is grim, but had space for some optimistic or fun sequences. Also, and I think I said it before, I think Miller´s humour doesn´t translate well into big screen. He adds a lot of fun stuff on their comics, but that gets lost when they put it on the big screen. Maybe Kershner wasn´t the right choice to handle irony and satire on a project like this.
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Stan The Man
Bah Concepts Division
Joined: 05 Jun 2003
Post Count: 7020
Comment: I'm the guy in Old Archive.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:38 am |
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| ChAnOoD : | | Archive : | | As much as i like some behind the scenes dirt being thrown around, i doubt that Allen's bad acting was the reason she was mostly cut from the movie. |
I wonder if it was more "she behaved bad" than "she acted bad" on R2. If Lewis worked fine on 1 & 3 I can´t see the problem on the second one. Unless Kershner felt she did it horrible to cut her over and over on the final film.. |
I agree it wasn't a case of acting but personal attitude behind the camera. That said I don't believe that's the reason why she got cut so much, at least not entirely.
It's been talked about elsewhere the stories of bad blood with Nancy in R2, particularly in regards to Irv Kershner. How she very much felt he treated her poorly, had a bad temper, was a huge problem and so on. While also hearing about how Nancy Allen acted like a 'diva' and displayed poor behavior herself, being contemptuous of the production. (There was also some talk of issues with Nancy even on R3, but that never seemed to have as much to them, partly because it seems she got along better with Dekker, probably moreso because she was on her way out and of course wasn't on set nearly as much)
Anyway back to R2 and this new bit here - Sounds like this adds some ammo for the 'Nancy was a diva' stance. Which I can see given what I've heard about her over time.
But even then, again, I don't think it was all her and she got cut because of that as Rolston's statement sort-of implies. More a mixed bag - As her scenes (along with others) got cut through the process of that hellish production (remember they cut a lot of exposition and character stuff for the sake of keeping runtime down and maintaining a pace of frequent action) that made her no doubt bitter and displeased.. and unlike Weller who seems to have chalked it up more to 'it is what it is', Nancy probably made more a stink of it. Stink that she seems to have left mostly at Kersh's feet. Which whether deserved or not could have contributed to cutting her character out more as it went.. perhaps. Perhaps not. I still think the film being chopped down to emphasize action was a mostly if not fully unilateral decision without regard to anyone in particular.
In any event I'm sorry Rolston got caught up in that cutting up as well. It's neat to hear this though. Especially since it always seemed to me he along with one or two other characters might have had - even if only slightly - bigger roles in the film that like so much else just got axed out.
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I don't wanna pay that, PhotoBucket. Now maybe you haven't heard, but I'm the guy in old Archive. So hows about you just shit snow for a year and I'll figure out something else. Sayonara!
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RoboPimp
PIMPY SUPREME
Joined: 10 Mar 2007
Post Count: 3124
Comment: "You dead wrong if ya think that pimpin' gon' die" - Snoop Dogg, P.I.M.P. (Remix)
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| Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:00 pm |
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| Stan The Man : | | But even then, again, I don't think it was all her and she got cut because of that as Rolston's statement sort-of implies. More a mixed bag - As her scenes (along with others) got cut through the process of that hellish production (remember they cut a lot of exposition and character stuff for the sake of keeping runtime down and maintaining a pace of frequent action). |
I got the trilogy on blu-ray again and watched through them all for the first time in a good while, and when watching Robo 2 I was thinking about this stuff a bit. In the past I was more leaning towards buying into the controversy and blaming Irvin Kershner for cutting her scenes. But as I watched it again I had to objectively ask: "does Lewis actually feel underused in this movie?" and the answer is no, not really. I don't know if anyone has checked the amount of screen time she has in each movie and I could be totally wrong but I feel like she did not appear in R2 much less than the first movie. She is not quite as important to the story, but unlike the first movie she is there right by Robo's side in the last scene of the movie. We all know Frank Miller's original script for RoboCop 2 was too much for one movie, and I agree that they focused on the action and a lot of character stuff was lost in the process. But RoboCop 2 does a good job of focusing on Robocop's personal vendetta against Cain, which is a fitting parallel to his arc with Boddicker in the first film. And to do that arc in each movie Robo needs to be a lone ranger and face them alone at times.
In all the films, Nancy Allen is not so much the co-star as one of the core supporting cast, alongside the Old Man and Sgt Reed. She got her brightest moment early in RoboCop 3, where we see Lewis on her own in a long and action packed sequence that did her character justice imo. I definitely have nothing but respect for Nancy Allen, and believe that she wasn't treated as well as she should have on the set of RoboCop 2. However, after reassessing the movie with fresh eyes, I don't think any offscreen drama had a negative impact on the final, at least as far Lewis is concerned. The behind the scenes shenanigans seem more apparent in other areas, but I think Lewis served her role in the film well. She may not have been at Robo's side the whole time, but she was there with him in the end.
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JohnBoyAdvance
Sgt-L1
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Post Count: 188
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:56 pm |
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I think in regards to Lewis in Robocop 2, I think, while she might not have been the co-star in Robocop 1, her scenes in the second half of the movie guide Robocop towards being Murphy. And I guess you would think that the sequel would add a bit more to Lewis, probably have her kicking the shit outta someone again. But instead they kinda add and expand on characters.
While I would have liked more Lewis in Robo 2, its not the worst thing about Robo 2.
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artuditu
mio Cid
Joined: 10 Aug 2002
Post Count: 1446
Comment: Stay out of trouble!
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:48 pm |
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When I was a kid I also felt Lewis was off-camera for too long. Although she has really cool action scenes, they were able to keep the tough cookie characterization on point.
We can also see her loyalty to Robo when he is dismantled, and it was funny how she grows increasingly frustrated with reprogrammed Robo.
I get opinions saying there was nothing else for her to do in the plot, and it could be the deleted scenes were weak. I still feel there was more room for her having a more solid presence as a partner outside of action scenes.
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Stan The Man
Bah Concepts Division
Joined: 05 Jun 2003
Post Count: 7020
Comment: I'm the guy in Old Archive.
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| Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:21 am |
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| artuditu : | | I get opinions saying there was nothing else for her to do in the plot, and it could be the deleted scenes were weak. I still feel there was more room for her having a more solid presence as a partner outside of action scenes. |
Word.
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I don't wanna pay that, PhotoBucket. Now maybe you haven't heard, but I'm the guy in old Archive. So hows about you just shit snow for a year and I'll figure out something else. Sayonara!
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RoboCop 2 - What happened?
